We Want SAM... <make it happen>

[ErdrickLoto]

Again not my primary focus, but an ability you can toggle that gives a damage buff is not unique nor does it define a class. Its how you deal the damage that defines the class. You can argue imbuing the weapons with elemental magics is increasing the damage output so in a way it is like like toggling one of the Kiss abilities, but take a step back, I rather have the former than some icon that says dmg increased.

Right, because an icon that says "Fire magics flow through your sword, increasing damage" when you hover over the buff icon is so much better than "Attack power increased by poisons" or whatever. Because that's all it's going to end up being. Elemental affinities mean approximately jack in FFXIV, besides whatever additional effects are tied to using the skills with the affinity (ex. Astral Fire, Umbral Ice, Thunder/Aero's DoTs). It would just end up a layer of flavor, unless you made it do more than just be a fire sword.

But again, my point was that there are creative alternatives for, in this instance, a dual wielding DPS and how too often the classic jobs are given priority in development.

You're ignoring that the Rune Knight - or Mystic Knight, or Spellblade, or whatever other name they're under this week - is a classic job. Thus, it would get marketing perks, though perhaps not as much as Red Mage. Adding them in is no different than adding ninja or dark knight in. You're still giving a job with lots of love over the course of the series a spot in the game.

[ADVSS]

.
You're ignoring that the Rune Knight - or Mystic Knight, or Spellblade, or whatever other name they're under this week - is a classic job. Thus, it would get marketing perks, though perhaps not as much as Red Mage. Adding them in is no different than adding ninja or dark knight in. You're still giving a job with lots of love over the course of the series a spot in the game.

yeah i really would like to see mystic knight come back.
At the very least though that teaser in recent story clearly shows an enchanted blade of light lb, or something - hinting at what could be expected of
scarlet witch' or we get both jobs and that wasnt teasing rdm but the former

[Marcellus_Cassius]

Its not an icon.. You would see the element imbued around your sword and they would have spell like animations or something, whenever did I state it would be an icon?

[ADVSS]

Its not an icon.. You would see the element imbued around your sword and they would have spell like animations or something, whenever did I state it would be an icon?

Theyre just hassling you over similarities between ninjas stances and what an enfire stance would be. even worse is how nice the mudra system is would have been a great system for a mobile caster, granting many skills in an instant. I think theyre pointing to similarities in ninja to how a just en-stanced red mage would work. Personally i could see the en-whatever being a 2 second cast spell on self, that gave a huton time limit buff, but that did different things, if there were multiple en spells. Honestly id prefer a more traditional red mage, but a runefencer cross seems to be eminent anyway

[Marcellus_Cassius]

Right, because an icon that says "Fire magics flow through your sword, increasing damage" when you hover over the buff icon is so much better than "Attack power increased by poisons" or whatever. Because that's all it's going to end up being. Elemental affinities mean approximately jack in FFXIV, besides whatever additional effects are tied to using the skills with the affinity (ex. Astral Fire, Umbral Ice, Thunder/Aero's DoTs). It would just end up a layer of flavor.

Ok I'm gonna try to sort through this confusion, you assumed the difference would be lorewise thereby limited to a description on an icon? Whereas I'm less concerned with lore and more supportive of as you mentioned "visual indicators" such as spell animations and the like on the weapon as in the case of the spell fencer. You said it best, it would end up as a layer of flavor, but thats what its all about, any dual wielding class is likely to a) wield two weapons and b) swing swing swing, the rest is up to layers of flavor. Then they call it the closest thing you can identify with from looking at it for 5 seconds, a ninja, a white mage, ect. this are just subtle alterations to a) wielding a weapon and b) swing swing swing that with enough "layers of flavors" can create a new class identity.

[ErdrickLoto]

Ok I'm gonna try to sort through this confusion, you assumed the difference would be lorewise thereby limited to a description on an icon? Whereas I'm less concerned with lore and more supportive of as you mentioned "visual indicators" such as spell animations and the like on the weapon as in the case of the spell fencer. You said it best, it would end up as a layer of flavor, but thats what its all about, any dual wielding class is likely to a) wield two weapons and b) swing swing swing, the rest is up to layers of flavor.

I get what you're trying to say.

I'm just saying that it would end up being absolutely pointless at best, or a hindrance (if not much of one, granted) at worst.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Ok I'm gonna try to sort through this confusion, you assumed the difference would be lorewise thereby limited to a description on an icon? Whereas I'm less concerned with lore and more supportive of as you mentioned "visual indicators" such as spell animations and the like on the weapon as in the case of the spell fencer. You said it best, it would end up as a layer of flavor, but thats what its all about, any dual wielding class is likely to a) wield two weapons and b) swing swing swing, the rest is up to layers of flavor. Then they call it the closest thing you can identify with from looking at it for 5 seconds, a ninja, a white mage, ect. this are just subtle alterations to a) wielding a weapon and b) swing swing swing that with enough "layers of flavors" can create a new class identity.

They already know this, they already said this in less words.
In the end, you're asking for something, while a larger portion are asking for something else.

Which would be fine, but when you say their reasons for wanting their choice is because "it's not unique enough" you cant give an example too similar to something already done as well.

Is what you're saying different? Yes. But "how" different is subjective.

And arguing will solve nothing.

We have buffs that have visual indicators already (Wrath), and we even have abilities that dont show an icon when activated (Each Mudra step)
One is magic, one is not. (Though in FFXIV everything is Aether, so even all melee are technically magical to some extent)

Im the kinda person who is like, I want a class in all platemail, with a 2h great sword, who melees, but is a healer.
That combo usually never exists, or if it does, is weaker than if it used a staff/mace/ what ever.
So I understand how wanting a combination not normally used is likable, but to say what everyone else wants to see isnt, for essentially the same reasoning, is just silly.

I get what you're trying to say.

I'm just saying that it would end up being absolutely pointless at best, or a hindrance (if not much of one, granted) at worst.

He's not suggesting it doesnt have an icon, he means he likes the visuals, just as someone would like the glamor of another set of armor.
(Plus SE wouldnt do it that way anyways, so its pointless)

[Marcellus_Cassius]

They already know this, they already said this in less words.
In the end, you're asking for something, while a larger portion are asking for something else.

Which would be fine, but when you say their reasons for wanting their choice is because "it's not unique enough" you cant give an example too similar to something already done as well.

Is what you're saying different? Yes. But "how" different is subjective.

And arguing will solve nothing.

We have buffs that have visual indicators already (Wrath), and we even have abilities that dont show an icon when activated (Each Mudra step)
One is magic, one is not. (Though in FFXIV everything is Aether, so even all melee are technically magical to some extent)

Im the kinda person who is like, I want a class in all platemail, with a 2h great sword, who melees, but is a healer.
That combo usually never exists, or if it does, is weaker than if it used a staff/mace/ what ever.
So I understand how wanting a combination not normally used is likable, but to say what everyone else wants to see isnt, for essentially the same reasoning, is just silly.

He's not suggesting it doesnt have an icon, he means he likes the visuals, just as someone would like the glamor of another set of armor.
(Plus SE wouldnt do it that way anyways, so its pointless)

All I said was Samurai was played out, and criticized how classic jobs get priority in development. The spell dancer was just an example for whoever requested on how there can be creative alternatives to fill standard roles (ie dual wield dps) and was not meant to argue for or against ninja or how some jobs are not unique enough; the point was to exemplify how differences are possible for jobs in the same class thereby the reference (Ninja) and the other possibility being suggested (Spell Dancer) had to have some commonality (Dual Wielding). All this was is an opinion and like subjectivity everyones got one. And in less words? How rude of you, if you look back we were going back and forth getting nowhere, summarizing helped.
It comes down to is ninja the only dual wielding job? Is samurai the only two handed DPS in its class? Are there others? To disagree with me is to say they don't exist. Which is simply untrue.

[Talraen]

All I said was Samurai was played out, and criticized how classic jobs get priority in development.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but keep in mind one of the core ideas of FFXIV 1.0 was to have new and unique classes (I miss my OG thaumaturge!), and one of the first things they announced to save the game was the introduction of traditional jobs. So I can't really blame theme for prioritizing the more traditional jobs. (Then again, AST and MCH indicate they aren't solely beholden to them.)

[Claire_Pendragon]

All I said was Samurai was played out, and criticized how classic jobs get priority in development. The spell dancer was just an example for whoever requested on how there can be creative alternatives to fill standard roles (ie dual wield dps) and was not meant to argue for or against ninja or how some jobs are not unique enough; the point was to exemplify how differences are possible for jobs in the same class thereby the reference (Ninja) and the other possibility being suggested (Spell Dancer) had to have some commonality (Dual Wielding). All this was is an opinion and like subjectivity everyones got one. And in less words? How rude of you, if you look back we were going back and forth getting nowhere, summarizing helped.
It comes down to is ninja the only dual wielding job? Is samurai the only two handed DPS in its class? Are there others? To disagree with me is to say they don't exist. Which is simply untrue.

Honestly don't know why you feel I'm being rude to you, when I think both of you have your points, and if anything I'm trying to get to the root of the issue, and clarify it.
The part where I said "they said it in less words" isnt some jab at how many words you used, but saying that they already stated it, and because they didnt use as much clarification, I'm going to assume you didn't know they understood you.

Your re-clarification seems to me that I have somehow misunderstood you, but once again, it didnt quite go against what I said either from what I gather, so I can only assume I'm not following you very well.