Au Ra Origins: The Dawn & Dusk Theory [Spoilers]

[TinyRedLeaf]

I, for one, believe this is just another case of reading too much into coincidences, just as it was for the now debunked theory about miqo'te originating from Meracydia.

I would say this, though: Why must it be the case that the au ra are literal descendants of Bahamut and Tiamat? To insist that they are, based on the folklore references, is akin to insisting that the Japanese are literally the descendants of Amaterasu, and that all Han Chinese are the sons and daughters of dragons.

I would grant you the possibility that the elder wyrms were somehow prehistorically involved in the development of the au ra tribes. Myths grew from these vaguely remembered interactions, and transformed over the millennia into the myth about a Dawn Father and Dusk Mother. Beyond that, I would reserve judgment until more definitive evidence can be found.

[Annana]

All of the Spoken - Dragon mating speculation fails to answer a very key question:

How would it work? I mean, physically? There is a massive size difference between dragons (esp. Celestial Wyrms) and a Spoken of any race, and dragons in this setting are not known to be able to shapeshift into Spoken. Spoken can become dragonkin, but that is a one-way trip and they're not dragons per sé, just beings who heavily resemble dragons.

I recall the Dragon eggs in the Aery being less eggs and more wormholes into another dimension. And considering that dragons don't necessarily reproduce sexually..

[Alberel]

Wasn't it confirmed by Yoshi or Koji shortly after 3.0 released that the Au Ra are of voidsent origin, and not draconic? I was all for the theories that the Au Ra were of draconic heritage but I thought this entire line of speculation was categorically shut down last year. Am I wrong?

[Naria]

Nah, I don't remember exactly where (it was in one of the presentations that they did stateside leading up to 3.0) but Yoshida and Koji only said that the Au Ra were not the children of Shiva and Hreasvgler and that their design theme had become more "demons" than "dragons". Koji did state elsewhere that they were draconic at one point in development but we haven't gotten a firm yes or no answer on dragon, voidsent or other.

[Sinistral]

Wasn't it confirmed by Yoshi or Koji shortly after 3.0 released that the Au Ra are of voidsent origin, and not draconic? I was all for the theories that the Au Ra were of draconic heritage but I thought this entire line of speculation was categorically shut down last year. Am I wrong?

They said the Au Ra have a demon "motif", motif being a term used to describe a particular aesthetic style, not origin.

[Alleo]

I can get behind this theory if we just kinda assume that they created the race with uhh magic or something like that because like Cilia said how exactly should such big celestial dragons mate with the spoken races? It would still be more than strange to have a dragon at the size of mount middy mate with a spoken race but Tiamat and Bahamut are way to big for such activities. So I am not sure if SE really would go that route..I mean there is still quite a difference between Shiva and Hraesvelgr and their bond with was more like soulmates and someone doing it with a dragon.

Maybe the Auri already existed through some way and met them both and somehow this got turned into the tale of the mother and father. Just like in real life where cultures have such creation myths.

[Aryalandi]

I am just going to point out the fact that.. well middy can change size freely between adorable shoulder-pet and rideable dragon size.. so it stands to logic that other dragons may be able to do the same.. its really not too far fetched to think that a dragon and an elezen or hyur (or whatever predated them) could have.. ahem.. worked something out..

It has always seemed fairly obvious that au ra are dragon-themed, if they had wings female au ra would literally be dragon fairies.. the entire "they are based on demons" thing frankly never really held much merit to me when they have dragon horns/scales/dragon-like tails and possibly-glowing eyes. Ask the people of Ishgard, they agree (too much..)

As long as the first brood has been around i wouldn't be surprised if they traveled /alot/ in their earlier years so it is likely that they would have had plenty of time to interact with an innumerable number of people, there is also the possibility that one or several of their children evolved into a humanoid being over time for whatever reason since dragons are known to continually evolve over their eternal lifespan and wind up very different from one another.

Or it could have just been magic of some kind or another as others have said.

[Alleo]

True but the question remains: Would SE really go such a way? Could you imagine how that would go for them if they choose the origin for the Au Ra like that and this information spread around the internet? People around the world are often offend by the smallest things and this is quite uhm away from anything normal. I have no problems with them being created by magic and such but I am not really sure if I would feel comfortable with the knowledge that they mated like that and I am not sure that SE really wants to cross such a line too.

If we dont get much more new information on that in the game I am going more with it being just a creation myth and that they are not truly the founders of the Auri. (Shouldnt Tiamat react a little different if one of her own kin stands before her? I mean time does move different for them so shouldnt we be like a distant child for her?)

[LineageRazor]

Wasn't it confirmed by Yoshi or Koji shortly after 3.0 released that the Au Ra are of voidsent origin, and not draconic? I was all for the theories that the Au Ra were of draconic heritage but I thought this entire line of speculation was categorically shut down last year. Am I wrong?

As Sinistral noted, at no point was it explicitly stated that Au Ra are descended from Voidsent, only that the art team switched gears during development to give them a voidsent-ish look rather than the dragon-ish look they'd originally been conceptualized with.

It's also worth noting that, Voidsent or Dragon, Ishgard STILL persecuted the Au Ra canonically in-game. At least two Au Ra NPCs (Sidurgu, the DRK trainer after Frey, and Alaqa, who is involved in the White Mage job quests) both allude to atrocities committed against Au Ra by Ishgard before Ishgard grudgingly conceded that they were NOT heretical dragon/human blends.

So, honestly, the whole "we can't have dragon-people because Ishgard would go berserk" thing was a moot point; Ishgard went berserk anyway. :P

[Alberel]

As Sinistral noted, at no point was it explicitly stated that Au Ra are descended from Voidsent, only that the art team switched gears during development to give them a voidsent-ish look rather than the dragon-ish look they'd originally been conceptualized with.

It's also worth noting that, Voidsent or Dragon, Ishgard STILL persecuted the Au Ra canonically in-game. At least two Au Ra NPCs (Sidurgu, the DRK trainer after Frey, and Alaqa, who is involved in the White Mage job quests) both allude to atrocities committed against Au Ra by Ishgard before Ishgard grudgingly conceded that they were NOT heretical dragon/human blends.

So, honestly, the whole "we can't have dragon-people because Ishgard would go berserk" thing was a moot point; Ishgard went berserk anyway. :P

Interesting. I must have misunderstood that then. I would argue that the intention of a demonic look over draconic heavily implies that they are intending to imply a demonic origin, but indeed it would seem there is still the possibility of a draconic one.