Concerns about " Getting rid of unused and ineffective actions"

[Lambdafish]

Yeah, unfortunately if the devs ever do that, I see PLD losing their cross classes from WHM. Either that, or they'll end up getting replacement skills that function in a similar way/at least Protect and Stoneskin will be built right into PLD tree to make up for it.

I really hope you are right. The devs need to have a serious think about PLDs job identity, and also work out a way to compensate PLD (as well as DRG) for the skills that they will inevitably lose with this change to the system. As it stands, PLD will lose Provoke, Convalescence, Awareness(?), and potentially Flash (though this will probably just be excempt from the system, and hopefully changed). They are also the only job that will potentially lose an entire cross class job from their list (to be replaced with DRK... hooray for homogenization), healers won't lose BLM skills, as all healers have BLM as a cross class, so the relevant skills will be kept for all healers.

[Lokier]

snip.

I believe Yoshida reassured that with the changes to cross class abilities certain classes will be given spells they need but don't have, so I'd assume things like provoke, etc, will just automatically be given to tank classes so they don't need to level a pala' to obtain it any more. Since things like provoke are a necessity for dual-tanking, not an option.

I think what will happen is they'll take necessity cross-class spells and just give them to classes that need them to function, whilst maybe making new, or rebuilding on current in-game, spells that are optional but not essential. Perhaps in an attempt to eliminate this issue with people levelling one class but not another, and hopefully attempting to lead classes and jobs down the route of "I levelled it because I wanted to, not because I have to" scenario.
A few people have voiced their distaste for being forced to level something they didn't want to level to get along in the game, giving up valuable time they would have liked to have used levelling the class of their choice. Luckily POTD has dealt with this issue somewhat, since you can just unlock your two needed classes in less than maybe seven hours and get back to what you want to do, level the class of your choice.

[Lambdafish]

snip

I read it more as an overhaul to the cross class system itself (granted, this is necessary). My only concern is how this affects PLD/WHM/DRG, arguably the 3 classes in this game that most of the relevant cross class skills come from (perhaps BLM too). These classes will have their skills taken and made into role abilities (it makes more sense to have provoke as a tank ability than creating 3 provokes), however these classes that held all the cross class skills now have less unique skills (arguably this was true anyway, but now they are making it official). This is why my worry for PLD is so valid, the two cross class skills that made it unique (stoneskin and protect) could potentially be straight up taken away.

I know we don't have enough information to go on, but on the other hand I need to be reassured that PLD will keep its identity as a support heavy tank. The only reassurance that has been given is that jobs will be given the relevant skills that they need (probably directly talking about WAR/DRK getting the PLD skills that they need, or DPS getting the DRG skills that they need)

[Terrini]

This is why my worry for PLD is so valid, the two cross class skills that made it unique (stoneskin and protect) could potentially be straight up taken away.

I know we don't have enough information to go on, but on the other hand I need to be reassured that PLD will keep its identity as a support heavy tank. The only reassurance that has been given is that jobs will be given the relevant skills that they need (probably directly talking about WAR/DRK getting the PLD skills that they need, or DPS getting the DRG skills that they need)

Alternatively, they could be given to all tanks, and that also takes away PLD's uniqueness. With the most popular cross-class skills getting merged into a general pool, the jobs that provided these skills need to get at the very least passive bonuses to make them more effective or unique than just the general pool.

[SaitoHikari]

I really hope you are right. The devs need to have a serious think about PLDs job identity, and also work out a way to compensate PLD (as well as DRG) for the skills that they will inevitably lose with this change to the system. As it stands, PLD will lose Provoke, Convalescence, Awareness(?), and potentially Flash (though this will probably just be excempt from the system, and hopefully changed). They are also the only job that will potentially lose an entire cross class job from their list (to be replaced with DRK... hooray for homogenization), healers won't lose BLM skills, as all healers have BLM as a cross class, so the relevant skills will be kept for all healers.

Actually, now that I think about it, I think that alternatively, a new system would basically keep cross classes in order to keep class uniqueness so to speak (some classes would actually get NEW cross classes), but the absolute most vital skills would be thrown into a general pool that wouldn't require leveling any other classes to obtain.

With such an idea, I could see tanks working out like this:

Tank 'general' skills:
- Lv. 5: Bloodbath
- Lv. 15: Convalesence
- Lv. 25: Provoke
- Lv. 35: Awareness

PLD Cross Classes: WHM and - instead of WAR - they get to cross class with DRG instead, gaining Feint, Keen Flurry, and Life Surge. As a result of this though, they lose Foresight and Mercy Stroke from WAR, among other things.
WAR Cross Classes: PLD and MNK (remains the same)
DRK Cross Classes: WAR and - instead of PLD - they get to cross class with NIN instead, gaining Shade Shift and Mug. As a result of this though, they lose, uhhh, Flash from PLD. (I want to say Death Blossom too for MAXIMUM edginess, but that's probably a REALLY bad idea)

Skills in the 'general' section are automatically learned upon reaching those levels as any tank class without having to level any other class.
Cross classes however will still require learning the skills as the other class beforehand. However, all such cross class skills should be shuffled to be obtainable within the first 20 levels.

And for healers:

Healer 'general' skills:
- Lv. 5: Cleric Stance
- Lv. 15: Protect
- Lv. 25: Surecast (would assume Surecast gets overhauled to allow casting while moving)
- Lv. 35: Swiftcast

WHM cross classes: SCH and BLM (remains the same, with one key difference - WHM can now get Manaward and Scathe from BLM)
SCH cross classes: WHM and - instead of BLM - they get AST, which grants them Combust and Stella. However, they lose Blizzard II from BLM.
AST cross classes: BLM (also gaining Manaward and Scathe) and - instead of WHM - they get SCH, which grants them Virus and Eye for an Eye. However, they lose Aero and Stoneskin from WHM.

(Yeah, it was difficult to come up with new cross classes for the healers... It'd probably be much more varied if we could get another caster, because it makes zero sense for any of the healers to cross class with any DoW class.)