Concerns about " Getting rid of unused and ineffective actions"

[Ayer2015]

Unlike the vast majority on posts on this thread, I’m actually in favor of a far more significant job revamp come 4.0. Time will tell what actually happens.

[Brill_]

Here's the thing, the unused actions are already not on my hotbar. By getting rid of them, they are not freeing up any space.

[Morningstar1337]

I have some mixed feelings about this as well. But I think SE can handle it. I drafted up a list of skills I think (or want, but mostly think) would be in these pools

• Tank Skills
  • Provoke
  • Convalescence
  • Awareness
  • Foresight
  • Bloodbath
  • Mercy Stroke
  • Maybe Protect, Stoneskin and Tempered Will
• Melee DPS skills
  • Bloodbath
  • Foresight
  • Internal Release
  • Blood for Blood
  • Invigorate
  • Goad
• Ranged Melee DPS skills
  • Blood for Blood
  • Feint
  • Raging Strikes
  • Venomous Bite
  • Hawk Eye
  • Invigorate
• Magic DPS Skills
  • Aero (Because I'd like it if BLM can be the master of 4 elements :P)
  • Raging Strikes
  • Swiftcast
  • Blizzard II
  • Physick
• Healer Skills
  • Cleric Stance
  • Aero
  • Cure
  • Swiftcast
  • Blizzard II
  • Sharpcast (for Benefic, and Cure procs)
  • Protect
  • Stoneskin (or Stoneskin II)

I also made a list of skills that might be either go on the chopping block or be changed

• One Ilm Punch (depending on its prevalence in PvP, though I'm of the opinion that SE wants 3 skills per form 2 positionals and one non positional, Given its outparts, I'd say an AoE skill would be the likely replacement)
• Surecast: Simply because I don't think they are gonna remove BLM's tank cooldowns and those do the job far better
• Freeze: increased potency compared to Blizzard II is apparently not enough for it to be considered useful
• Grenado Shot and Wide Volley: as it stands They are the Range Melee counterparts to Freeze, A non-self-centered version of their self-centered AoEs. But the thing is, a BLM can get its MP back, a BRD or MCH can't get TP back with the same rate, and unlike freeze it doesn't even have higher potency.
• Swiftsong: Depends on if the Devs see free sprinting as something to be kept for QoL purposes, but it still seems useless in combat and its placement on the leveling skill lists spoils that BRD is ARC's Job
• Bloodletter: Not a Removal, but more of a readjustment to adapt to Wanderer's Minuet so that the procs have less of a chance to be wasted
• Thunder II, Aero II and Stone II. I actually want them to stay but to be changed to fulfill different niches. like making Stone and Thunder II AoEs and Aero II granting some debuff in addition to a DoT

[The_Shang]

[*]Grenado Shot and Wide Volley: as it stands They are the Range Melee counterparts to Freeze, A non-self-centered version of their self-centered AoEs. But the thing is, a BLM can get its MP back, a BRD or MCH can't get TP back with the same rate, and unlike freeze it doesn't even have higher potency.

You couldn't be more wrong. While I agree that BRD and MCH do not have a lot of options to regain their TP, the options they *do* have makes up for it and allows them to do more sustainable AoE DPS over a longer period of time than a BLM could (because state switching breaking up the AoE rotation for BLM's).

Wide Volley and Grenado Shot are an essential part of the BRD and MCH toolkit and are widely used to deal with large groups alongside their other AoE's (Bishop Autoturret and Flaming Arrow/Rain of Death). If they'd end up upping the damage, fine. If they remove it, I'd see very little reason to play BRD anymore, because then it would be massively outclassed by DRG and MNK.

[SaitoHikari]

You couldn't be more wrong. While I agree that BRD and MCH do not have a lot of options to regain their TP, the options they *do* have makes up for it and allows them to do more sustainable AoE DPS over a longer period of time than a BLM could (because state switching breaking up the AoE rotation for BLM's).

Wide Volley and Grenado Shot are an essential part of the BRD and MCH toolkit and are widely used to deal with large groups alongside their other AoE's (Bishop Autoturret and Flaming Arrow/Rain of Death). If they'd end up upping the damage, fine. If they remove it, I'd see very little reason to play BRD anymore, because then it would be massively outclassed by DRG and MNK.

And to add to this, BRD and MCH has the ability to pop all their buffs at once to skyrocket their mobbing damage, and BRD especially has resource-free Rain of Death to sustain it (though it heavily relies on RNG and requires setup beforehand - as in Straight Shot -> Windbite on 3 mobs first before you go to town). Ideally mob packs will be dead or nearly so by the time you run out of TP, and if not, there's your party TP regen to get you back up (though while it reduces your damage, it's far better than standing there like an idiot).

[Morningstar1337]

You couldn't be more wrong. While I agree that BRD and MCH do not have a lot of options to regain their TP, the options they *do* have makes up for it and allows them to do more sustainable AoE DPS over a longer period of time than a BLM could (because state switching breaking up the AoE rotation for BLM's).

Wide Volley and Grenado Shot are an essential part of the BRD and MCH toolkit and are widely used to deal with large groups alongside their other AoE's (Bishop Autoturret and Flaming Arrow/Rain of Death). If they'd end up upping the damage, fine. If they remove it, I'd see very little reason to play BRD anymore, because then it would be massively outclassed by DRG and MNK.

Okay I concede with the TP regain thing, however that still dosn't excuse the fact that both classes have two AoEs with the exact same potency. The best case scenario would be that one of them in both Jobs gets a buff, but something about these two skills (or Spread Shot and Wide Volley) has got to change.

[Jinglybell]

Feint may be useless to drg, but its useful on bard for pvp because its off gcd and you dont have to drop wanderers. So ill be sad if they remove it.

[rainichan]

From my understanding of the info it wasn't so much getting rid of stuff, but more like merging actions into traits, or merging the less used actions into other actions that ARE used as a bonus effect. They said we'd be getting new skills from 60-70 and that would cause an abundance of skill bloat which was already an issue in HW. So merging Featherfoot into, say, the stance change for Monk or even a skill used while in Fists of Wind or something will cut down on what's on a bar. I don't think they'd outright get rid of the actions, just merge them into others.

[Snow_Princess]

Another reason I would object to such a thing is that, for some classes, previous spells are very involved with the current style of play. Try taking away a Black Mage's fire 1 and see how much of a twist they get into. With no fire 1, no fire starter, and it's harder to keep Astral Fire 3 refreshed during Enochian for optimal DPS. And, if I recall correctly, White Mages casting cure 2 can see benefits in cure 3's cast time and speed. How about the combos that tanks possess? A gladiator starts with fast slash and is just mindlessly bashing critters, then they get savage blade, learning about aggro, and then Rage of Halone, learning about how important debuffs are to damage mitigation. Every step was necessary to master before understanding the next. The point of all this is, if you're operating on the criteria of unused and ineffective actions, you're going to swiftly find out that there are very few of them in this game. It's not nearly as broken as what some people may say. I understand that a significant chunk of FF14's player base plays on consoles, and, rather than limit this wonderful game for the sake of the limitations of a controller, maybe we should just implement macro tutorials and show them how to make the most of what button real estate they have available to them? Just like everything else I've touched on in my little essay here, it's just another skill to be mastered.

All they had to do was add "improved thunder" trait for 22 and and 46, that should been done from the start of things as it is annoying to have all 3 set just because of changing level caps. For echo I pray to god they overhaul that,from server ticks with MP regen, and vanishing bosses that vanish just at the correct time to make it drop etc is very annoying.

I really do not see them changing fire I, fire III and fire starter procs because that would change the job completely for all levels. I think this comment is a grave over reaction to what they mean.

We do no spam Cure II for cure III, we spam cure I for free Cure II. Speaking of cure III, that would be a good spell to look at when it comes to changing/removing/adding some trail at 61+ to make it worthwhile using. You use cure III like.. 1%? of the time?

~~~Momo

[ErikMynhier]

I kind of hope it will be like the pvp set of skills. Some exclusive unique skills for each job, with a general list of bread and butter skills for everyone in your roll to use.