[dev1245] Food recipe simplificatioin

[HiirNoivl]

Hi, I would like to discuss how SE can simplify food recipes.

It think it goes without saying that when you're using all 8 slots in your synthesis window and each one of those slots is a different item, and some of those items (such as cinnamon) can't even be gathered. Then we have a problem.

I suggest that food recipes, unless they are so highpowered special kind, never have more than 6 items and all of these items should be gathered or easily obtainable. Simplicity and ease should reflect the rank of the item.

Example 1:

Boiled Crayfish (Level 1):

Current recipe:

Crimson Crayfish (x1)
Cloves (x1)
Table Salt (x1)
Mineral Water(x1)

Problems:

This is a Level 1 Culinarian Synth. The number of different items raises the bar unnecessarily high for for a first time skillet wielder. The item, Crimson Crayfish, is not easily obtainable by a low ranking fisher as well. It would be much easier for a level 1 Culinarian to turn crayfish into sand. Also, Mineral water will have to be purchased, because there is no low level way to obtain it.

Suggested Change:

Crayfish(x1) = Boiled Crayfish

Since the the first time skillet wielder will be turning fish into sand anyway, why not give him at least the obtion to make that crayfish into a boiled cray without the burden of buying water?

Example 2:

Boiled Bream (Level 21):

Current Recipe:

Bianaq Bream (x1)
Midland Cabbage (x1)
Wizard Eggplant (x1)
Wild Onion (x1)
Sun Lemon (x1)
Garlean Garlic (x1)
Cloves (x1)
Olive Oil (x1)

Problems: You need eight items gathered from across Eorzea to make this level 21 synth. I believe that it is far more easier to rid the synth of items gathered outside the area where the Bream itself is caught. (La Noscea) This will cut the recipe down to

Bianaq Bream (x1)
Wild Onion (x1)
Sun Lemon (x1)
Olive Oil (x1)

The Wild Onion is a Leve reward so that is okay to keep. Having more items, but have those items all gatherable in the same place will make this synth viable for a level 20 culinarian

Example 3:

Aldgoat Steak (Level 49)

Aldgoat Chuck (x1)
Black Pepper (x1)
Garlean Garlic (x1)
Sour Red (x1)
Laurel (x1)
Table Salt (x1)

Problems: For a high ranking synth, this ingredient list is not so bad, but it's what's inside that has issues. Sour Red is not obtainable by any means besides buying it. This can be modified by using cidar vinegar or something similar. Black Pepper only drops from Imps or is purchased. This should be more easily obtainable by having more mobs drop it or make it gatherable somehow. Otherwise, it should be removed all together.

Suggested change:

Aldgoat Chuck (x1)
Garlean Garlic (x1)
Cidar Vinegar (x1)
Laurel (x1)
Table Salt (x1)

Thanks for reading Devs.

TL;DR

1) Cul recipes should be very simple at the lowest levels and get more complex as you rank up
2) Cul recipe ingredients should not be NPC-obtainable only
3) Cul Recipes ingredients should be more readily available. Preferably locally

[tymora]

Someone might want to save all the recipes before they simplify it.
For the most part, you can actually make it in real life and it'll be edible with the current recipes.

Simplified recipes may not taste as good, but I doubt our characters will be complaining

[HiirNoivl]

Hahahah...

I never thought of it that way.

[grandm]

example 1 you want to boil crayfish without using water, i think you don't understand how boiling works :P lol

seriously recipes are being revamped, if other revamped recipes from other crafting classes are anything to go by then i would think they will be simplified

[Akubikumo]

I actually dont mind the amount of ingredients and the challenge to acquire them it adds a great feeling of accomplishment to turn out a few stacks of Stuffed Cabbage +3. I liek that it makes me travel as well and hunt down monsters for ingredients. Kick-ass, salt-of-the-earth style chef. However, the one thing I really really wish they would do is give us more uses for basic ingredients. For example, we should be able to make a wide variety of different flavors of cake (chocolate, spice, carrot, rolandberry etc each with dif stats ) using the same base cake recipe + flavor ingredient. Or a basic "stew" that we can add different proteins or vegetables to, depending on our rank as a chef. This is how cooking works in the real world and its a great system! This way i can actually start using up these endless stacks of ingredients that are only good for 1 or 2 things (and often not-so-great things><). Plus, I like what Tymora is saying, about the recipes being pretty close to RL food, i think its fun! Its why i became a Culinarian in the first place lol.

[HiirNoivl]

example 1 you want to boil crayfish without using water, i think you don't understand how boiling works :P lol

seriously recipes are being revamped, if other revamped recipes from other crafting classes are anything to go by then i would think they will be simplified

This is not about reality Grandm

This is about practicality. Level 1 synths should not have recipes that require gil. Notice also that Boiled Bream recipe does not require water. I just hope that they simplify to the point that it will make it easier to make food so that I don't have to make sand just to rank up.

I actually dont mind the amount of ingredients and the challenge to acquire them it adds a great feeling of accomplishment to turn out a few stacks of Stuffed Cabbage +3. I liek that it makes me travel as well and hunt down monsters for ingredients. Kick-ass, salt-of-the-earth style chef. However, the one thing I really really wish they would do is give us more uses for basic ingredients. For example, we should be able to make a wide variety of different flavors of cake (chocolate, spice, carrot, rolandberry etc each with dif stats ) using the same base cake recipe + flavor ingredient. Or a basic "stew" that we can add different proteins or vegetables to, depending on our rank as a chef. This is how cooking works in the real world and its a great system! This way i can actually start using up these endless stacks of ingredients that are only good for 1 or 2 things (and often not-so-great things><). Plus, I like what Tymora is saying, about the recipes being pretty close to RL food, i think its fun! Its why i became a Culinarian in the first place lol.

I'm sure that's what Tanaka had in mind at first. However, it just made Culinarian very difficult to level. Few people want to do this. =/ I was one of those people who ran around collecting things for making food. Unfortunately, no one wanted it. It was pretty crushing that I did all that work made an unwanted product and then didn't even get much SP out of the deal.

Like I said, maybe on highpowered or special food we can have 8 different ingredients around the world, but there should be a simplification of the majority of recipes so that Culinarian is more accessible.

[Akubikumo]

I'm sure that's what Tanaka had in mind at first. However, it just made Culinarian very difficult to level. Few people want to do this. =/ I was one of those people who ran around collecting things for making food. Unfortunately, no one wanted it. It was pretty crushing that I did all that work made an unwanted product and then didn't even get much SP out of the deal.

But see i think the problem is not in the variety of required mats (which i think is actually a cool thing) but in the usefulness of the food. I def agree with you though that the recipes are just useless right now and certainly not worth all the effort they take. I havent even touched a single fish or lentil since the last patch cause there's just no point. But again the problem, as i see it, is the lack of necessity for food. I'd be kinda bummed if anybody could just plop a couple easy-to-get, local items and *poof* a steak.

Like I said, maybe on highpowered or special food we can have 8 different ingredients around the world, but there should be a simplification of the majority of recipes so that Culinarian is more accessible.

Like i was saying about the idea of "Base" recipes for things like cakes, stews or even omelets. Just like in RL, you learn the basic technique and then as you grow, you begin introducing more difficult/expensive/exotic ingredients. Like Vanilla Cake - rnk10, Rolandberry Cake - rnk 20, Chocolate Cake - rnk 30, Spice Cake - rnk 40, etc. and for every cake you use the same basic, simple ingredients (flour, milk, eggs, sugar) then add the higher flavorings as you rank up. this formula could apply to all sorts of dishes, allow for multi-use mats and give cul's some actual food to grind on.

I think the challenge culinarians face is unique among the classes and i like the weirdo, where-the-hell-do-i-find-that? list of ingredients. But you're right, I just wish you got something for your effort besides Tom Sawyer-style Gratifaction™.

[HiirNoivl]

But see i think the problem is not in the variety of required mats (which i think is actually a cool thing) but in the usefulness of the food. I def agree with you though that the recipes are just useless right now and certainly not worth all the effort they take. I havent even touched a single fish or lentil since the last patch cause there's just no point. But again the problem, as i see it, is the lack of necessity for food. I'd be kinda bummed if anybody could just plop a couple easy-to-get, local items and *poof* a steak.

Yes but if you make food useful, you'll create a demand for it. The current complicated recipes work now because no one is consuming the product. If people actually WANTED Boiled Bream, the product would be at a very high price and so would the ingredients because it's a pain in the butt to make. Also, like I said, keeping things as they are would do nothing for the people who actually want to grind/rank up on recipes. It would be unnecessarily arduous to actually make food to rank up. They would only rank up on pointless things like sand.

People had this same objection with the other synths when they were simplified. They said, "Aw man! I liked making hempen sleeves (blue) and needing dodo leather (black) just to make one -- strangely uncolored -- item. It's no fun if it's accessible to everyone! Where's the accomplishment?! And there's nothing wrong with grinding on parts that no one needs. Without parts what are we going to rank up on?"

But it was a terribly complicated system and defeated its purpose. Once the synths were simplified all of a sudden you see a lot more people crafting and more items available. Especially at lower ranks. And the only complaints people have now is that the crafting game is too boring.

Simplifying the recipes is fixing them. You can still have these oddball ingredients. But the recipes that use them can be many and simple.

For example you can have 8 simple recipes for Nopales instead of 1 complicated one.

The ground work has already been laid for the simplification:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...250#post359250

However, I would like to see them simplify most for the lower level synths. Higher level ones should be harder as they will provide more benefit... (?) at least they should

Like i was saying about the idea of "Base" recipes for things like cakes, stews or even omelets. Just like in RL, you learn the basic technique and then as you grow, you begin introducing more difficult/expensive/exotic ingredients. Like Vanilla Cake - rnk10, Rolandberry Cake - rnk 20, Chocolate Cake - rnk 30, Spice Cake - rnk 40, etc. and for every cake you use the same basic, simple ingredients (flour, milk, eggs, sugar) then add the higher flavorings as you rank up. this formula could apply to all sorts of dishes, allow for multi-use mats and give cul's some actual food to grind on.

Simplifying the recipes does open up a lot of possibilities. I just feel that the current recipes were thrown together and not very ... well thought out.