Main Scenario Restriction Bloodstorm - Very Very Bad idea.

[RyuDragnier]

Oh really? I'll reiterate one more time, I leveled Dragoon from 34 to 52 in a single day doing nothing but fates for ten hours. In fact, I don't even think I was done with 2.0 at the time. You know how I figured out Dragoon's rotation? I youtubed a video and adapted the 60 rotation to 50. Not a single quest along the way gave me any hints or suggestions on how to properly utilize my rotation. You don't learn Blood for Blood gives a slight potency increase if used ahead of Internal Release. The Dragoon questline doesn't tell you how to manage Geirskogul or how frequent in your rotation it can be used. It doesn't even mention the skill by name. You're literally just handed it after completing a story that has nothing to do with that particular skill. So what exactly would I be missing had I skipped the storyline entirely, you know, the storyline that doesn't even mention the skills it gives you by name, let alone show you how to use it?

I was referring to the fact that you won't know a damned rotation because you'll start off at level 60 with all these moves, and you never leveled the class from the ground up, which would help you have a grasp of how to use all of them in actual combat. Combat experience helps you learn what works and what doesn't, and it's far easier to get it properly if you're leveling up a class.

You mean boss mechanics where players currently shout at you if you haven't watched a guide? Since I only joined last year, I did many bits of content out of order. Like clearing Nidhogg EX before more than half the extreme primals before him. I managed to learn his mechanics just fine. Someone skipping ahead isn't going to be clueless. This game isn't exactly difficult to figure out. Not to mention, MrHappy and Mizzteq put out guides within a week or two of new content being launched. Most people are either going into content where everyone is blind to mechanics or they've watched guides.

You're comparing different endgame raids, of which Nidhogg EX is one of the newest. People expect you to at least have a grasp of what's going on since not everybody learns at the same pace, so watching the video lets you know what to expect. But we both know there are people who won't watch the guides, who won't educate themselves...they're the ones that will cause the problems at endgame. The ignorant who refuse to educate themselves beforehand.

Though that's moving beyond the normal boss mechanics I was referring to. Every boss in this game builds off what you've learned from a previous one in some way. Sastasha's boss teaches you that there are mechanics, and failing them will punish you in some way. Tam-Tara's will teach you tether mechanics and dealing with adds during the boss. Copperbell's will teach you how important it is to take out the adds first, for they could be part of a mechanic. Totorak teaches you how to deal with DoTs multiple targets on the boss. Etc Etc. The bosses slowly build your knowledge of mechanics over time, a bunch of mechanics somebody suddenly thrust into endgame from the beginning will not know, and will easily fail.

And bad players will always be bad. They don't care. Inexperienced players generally want to learn how to play properly and will readily accept advice when mistakes are made. I recently had a mentor White Mage who stood still and did nothing while we mowed down mobs. This person was wearing ilvl 250 gear, had it all melded yet he couldn't be bothered to even turn on Cleric Stance once. Evidently, the MSQ and job questline didn't make him give a hoot about DPSing.

The bad players will be the ones who go straight to 60 from the getgo with the said item proposed before. We're cutting down on them by having them work their way up. Yes, we'll always have bad players at endgame, but I'd rather have a group of 100 new players work their way up to endgame and have 75 of them end up decent or better, than to have a group of 100 start off at level 60 and only have 15 of them be decent or better.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You imply it with every post on this thread. You persist with the same argument. "It should not matter to others if someone wants to skip the story." Over and over you have said this. Anyone who mentions the story, you deliberately go out of your way to shove this argument in their face. Saying the story doesn't matter, and that end-game and dungeons are the real content.

Maybe to you. But the story does matter to those other people, or they wouldn't be saying it. Honestly, I don't care if you skip the story; legitimately. I care about the integrity of the game, and have said this. A pay-to-win/skip system will absolutely destroy the integrity of the game....

Why. Why does it matter to you what other people do? That has been my only argument-- one you have continuously failed to address. I, actually, dutifully read and watch every scene because I do happen to enjoy the story. But if someone else wants to skip ahead, I couldn't care less. Their decision to skip the story, be it through pressing esc or buying an expensive cash shop matters not to my, personal, enjoyment of the game. They don't impact me nor my experiences. I am not "shoving" my opinions. This is a discussion forum. I'm merely offering an opposing view you simply dislike. Welcome to Internet. People are going to disagree with your preferences. That doesn't instantly make your position absolute.

You are essentially taking a personal offense because other people may opt to play the game differently. How does someone skipping ahead "destroy the integrity of the game"? You'll never even know they did unless they tell you. Regardless, you do realize Square Enix is a business-- with investors who don't give a hoot about anything beyond profit.

I don't think its wrong nor have I ever stated as much. I simply don't care if someone else doesn't want to start at level one and slog through 500 quests. What I do care about is accessibility because an MMO without a constant influx of new players will inevitably decline in subs. What happens after Stormblood or the expansion thereafter. Are people expected to then slog through even more content they may not be interested in; that is upwards of nearly a decade old? They won't. And once that starts to happen, Square Enix isn't simply going to shrug off financial loss. No, they'll push that back onto us via exclusive cash shop content.

Thousands have also quit. A rather comprehensive, albeit unofficial analysis, put FFXIV's active character total at roughly 800,000 back in January. That number has dropped to 500,000 as of August.

You reference one roleplayer you know, as being the end all of this discussion. Why does it matter so much that a roleplayer skips ahead? Why should it concern the entire player base that one person out of millions, wants to go play their non-WoL role in the new city, but doesn't want to play the "boring" story? Do I care that they're there? No. Do I care if they change the fundamental core of a game I enjoy for this small minority? Yes.

Please stop putting words in my mouth. I referenced her as simply an example. I never once said she represented anything more than that. I've already cited why. You need new players. You aren't accounting for those "millions" being existing players who, therefore, won't feel the same bloat as someone new faced with a mountain of quests they aren't interested in. I've repeatedly cited WoW-- specially asking if the same number of people would have purchased Legion if they were told "by the way, you have fifteen years worth of old content to go before we let you play Legion."

MMOs do not function the same as games in other genres. Unlike any other Final Fantasy, FFXIV's quest number will only become larger as the years trickle by. It's the equivalent of say, BioWare forcing people to have completed save file of Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 before they can play Mass Effect 3.

Some people want to treat each expansion like a brand new game.

Why should a new player have an advantage over someone that busted their ass to get through the MSQ? You keep saying that it is not an "advantage," but then bring up the Chinese version. Did you also know that with the Chinese version they can pay to level up their jobs? They get gil and other items as well. Do you not see something fundamentally wrong with this type of system?

Because it isn't one. Gear resets faster than my cats run after seeing their own shadow. Come Stormblood, we will all be put on the exact same playing field. You, I, someone named Deliverance not Digiorno, will all basically be reset. Those of us who have scripture and melded crafting gear would actually have an advantage still, seeing most of that will last a good few levels into the patch.

Yes, I'm aware. I do not care. If they want to throw several hundred dollars to level jobs. Go right ahead. It doesn't impact me or how I play. Because FFXIV's content necessitates learning the fights, they have no greater advantage. Someone who used a jump potion isn't going to step into Savage and get a World First clear on their first attempt. They won't even have the gear for the first primal.

All the Chinese version does is essentially treat the current expansion (Heavensward) like its the base game. You are given the barest of minimum gear, a little gil and that's it. Meanwhile, I can level up to 50 in a day-- a few if I'm not doing another silly 10+ hour grind. I'll also make more in ten minutes crafting than they were given. And! It didn't cost me any real world money. I wish them well in their "advantage."

Like I said, even just one single little thing (a jumping potion) can set a precedent for the cash shop. What stops it from turning into the Chinese pay-to-win model?

The fact you don't actually win anything? You're placed at the very beginning of Heavensward in baby gear. You just don't have to do A Realm Reborn. That is literally all you get since everything else means nothing. There is no precedent to set because this jump potion only serves that one purpose.

[TarynH]

Retainers aren't p2w?

Someone brought up an argument on specializations and how people could just use jump potions to have more toons with them. But can't you just level all 8 of your retainers and send them on ventures to have more chances of getting stuff than someone else? Honestly, this point holds weight at the very start of an expansion when things are at their highest. Yet, you'll see a whole bunch of posts pertaining to how retainers aren't p2w and you have to level each one and gear etc etc. Fact remains, its a method that people can buy which increases advancement over others in some form, which I'm pretty sure what most people consider to be p2w.

They've handled the retainer system with rather fair balance. In that the retainers cannot get you everything in the game. For the entirety of 2.0-2.55 they could not gather items from unspoiled nodes. These were later added after or during 3.0's launch. They currently cannot bring you the highest items (folklore, etc.) from HW. And a single retainer cannot bring back more than what the actual player could. In fact, it is sometimes more productive to gather the majority of the items yourself. I'm sure most people could bring back more than 20-30 iron ores in an hour.

I wouldn't necessarily call it paying to "win" as they don't "advance" the player in any certain terms. They can provide you with easily gathered materials, but it's still on the player to advance their character. They are more of a convenience. And like you said, you have to gather whatever they gather first, in order for them to unlock it. You also have to level them, and gear them. So they can't exceed what your own personal character can do yourself. The player is literally investing the time to make the retainers advantageous, not the other way around. The only thing I will admit they can advance, is your pocketbook. But then, I've seen it mentioned countless times that gil doesn't matter in this game. :P

I consider pay-to-win as something that advances your character past/thru content. Paying to level a character to 50 or 60. Paying to jump past story/dungeon content. Paying for gear that increases ilvl. Retainers cannot advance you in this way. They can only bring you things you have already succeeded in obtaining yourself.

[KitingGenbu]

...

Yet XI still allowed people to start separate expansion content regardless if they had did the previous or not....And that can't be done here? FF game after all. Personally, most new people only care about the new jobs and nothing more. A blue quest could've easily be put into Camp Dragonhead about going into Ishgard to deliver something without breaking anything in the story. You don't even do anything in the HW zones on the new job stuff until 50+ anyway, so it could've worked.

They've handled the retainer system with rather fair balance. In that the retainers cannot get you everything in the game. For the entirety of 2.0-2.55 they could not gather items from unspoiled nodes. These were later added after or during 3.0's launch. They currently cannot bring you the highest items (folklore, etc.) from HW. And a single retainer cannot bring back more than what the actual player could. In fact, it is sometimes more productive to gather the majority of the items yourself. I'm sure most people could bring back more than 20-30 iron ores in an hour.

I wouldn't necessarily call it paying to "win" as they don't "advance" the player in any certain terms. They can provide you with easily gathered materials, but it's still on the player to advance their character. They are more of a convenience. And like you said, you have to gather whatever they gather first, in order for them to unlock it. You also have to level them, and gear them. So they can't exceed what your own personal character can do yourself. The player is literally investing the time to make the retainers advantageous, not the other way around. The only thing I will admit they can advance, is your pocketbook. But then, I've seen it mentioned countless times that gil doesn't matter in this game. :P

I consider pay-to-win as something that advances your character past/thru content. Paying to level a character to 50 or 60. Paying to jump past story/dungeon content. Paying for gear that increases ilvl. Retainers cannot advance you in this way. They can only bring you things you have already succeeded in obtaining yourself.

You're talking about direct gear advance and I'm talking about money which can be put towards direct gear advancement. Item for glamour and even normal mats can be acquired passively by these retainers so I do not see how you think that is "balanced." Put it like this. Lets say I have 8 mining retainers that can pull in some new type of ore in SB. They pull in an average of 20 usually so that's 20x8=160. So I'm averaging almost 2 stacks of 99 that a person will probably buy for 100k~. I can make almost 200k a hour at the start of an expansion without doing anything other than checking on these things. One could say that gearing would be an issue but they would be wrong since there will be vendors who sell gear and if you have leves saved before the expansion, getting 61-62 wouldn't take more than a few hours of you time. So lets say someone has 1M to burn on all of that plus 5 hours of their time. Just to start passively making 150-200k after that point per hour because they were able to rent 6 more retainers than someone else. Not p2w?

The fact remains that the person who reaches the end first sets the standard until the market becomes oversaturated and then they are forced onto something else. That's fine if everyone is given the same tools. But its not fine if you can get extra tools outside of the confines you are working in and compete with others.

[Mwynn]

I don't take Players serious if they jump right into Extreme Primals / Savage Content being fresh Lv.60.

I give them three Days and they quit due of being harrassed / insulted out of these Duties. There is a Reason why Cross Class Skills or Skill Ceiling is a thing.

INB4 Starting playing Final Fantasy X, beating Yu Yevon and "The End" Display is coming up in a matter of 5 Minutes. That must be a good Game! *Beware, Sarcasm!*

[Lulu89]

It funny that the 2 doing the most pokeing and picking at everything are both form Balmung....just saying >.>

[Mwynn]

It funny that the 2 fighting and picking out everything are both form Balmung....just saying >.>

Well it shouldnt surprise me if a Player is RP'ing, went through all Story, has the wrong Hairstyle and decides to create a new Character due of that, and complains in the end....

No wonder they all seem to hate the Main Story

#NormalizeBalmung2016

[LisannaTargaryen]

Lets do some stats. I leveled my Alt last week from 0-60 with cutscene skipping in 5 ingame days. Thats up to 3.4 and a12 down. I still have the leaf. Huge help was NN and friends doing unsync content to skip through duties.So fir the love of god thats 150 hrs. In the end if you dont enjoy the journey why play the game. The fact there are solo duties in MSQ that serve as a wake up call that you need to get better yourself its a huge win for me. I will agree 2.X-2.55 needs some fat trimming and MSQ up to lvl50 need some exp boosts. The 46-49 leveling was a pain in the ass and i had to stop doing MSQ to level. I hit though HW being lvl52. And only had to grind exp at 58 and 59.

[Lulu89]

Well it shouldnt surprise me if a Player is RP'ing, went through all Story, has the wrong Hairstyle and decides to create a new Character due of that, and complains in the end....

No wonder they all seem to hate the Main Story

#NormalizeBalmung2016

I know right! Lol

[Mwynn]

I need new players in Free Company, they watch my Stream and they like raids, hi-end dungeons and all content what i do. But they play first 30 days and that just boring to make main scenario. I try to find why they do that even if we help them and force to play with us, and i start new characters and i can tell one - most low lvl quest are boring, locations are empty, no one do any fates, for dungeons i wait more than 40 min and i stuck on 42 lvl and don't have any motivation to do more, because i know how many quests and grind i have to do to reach lvl 60.

And another Post, this is no Rant but let me say this, it is a rather... good Advice.

Players will join your FC if they see you are a good Person who likes to help. Helping too much is a thing that scares most Players away.
Rushing FC Members through the Main Story is a No-Go too and likely will make them Quit aswell.

With your Stream you just show one aspect of the Game, the things you mentioned above, that be the Endgame. If you do not show the Low - Mid Game Aspects, you don't draw attention for that side and hence People never see that side of FFXIV.

If your FC Players would jump right into the Game being Lv.60, as Astrologians, Dark Knights or Machinists, well, they get kicked in a matter of a few Minutes, and yes, People can and will kick others due of their Playstyles or Bad Customisation. This would make more People quit than it would actually right now.

FFXIV isn't about reaching Lv.60, it is the Way how you reach it, doing it the fastest Way will just burn you / other Players out in no time and hence they leave.

This is like I stream my Miner mining Lv.60 Mats that sell for tons of Money and People are excited about it, they suddenly start Mining at Lv.1 and try to sell Stuff that sells for low Gil, hence disappointed and they quit doing it...