The Case For or Against Cross-World Dungeons

[Chezen]

This comes from the perspective of extensive experience in the WoW LFG.

Pros:
-allows people to find a group very easily and quickly
-makes it easier for low levels

These are admittingly good things. Making a party within your guild can be very tough, with people constantly on different schedules.

Cons:
-easy for people to act however they want because of anonymity
-breaks down server community
-breaks down common courtesy
-breaks down use of the "world"
-forces the idea of set roles and set ways to play (tank, healer, etc.)
-easy for people to take advantage of others (4 people que in with you, do almost the whole dungeon, and then drop you to bring in their friend so he can get the credit. Also ninja loot, etc, etc).

I consider LFGs to kinda be like mmo welfare. If you want quality play, you really need to find your own group. Otherwise, it's just a gamble on what you will end up with. If it didn't affect the rest of the community, I wouldn't be too concerned about it, but the truth is it does. And this is coming from someone that would benefit from it.

A typical random in WoW goes like this: You cue in, and quickly try to orientate yourself on where you are and who you are playing with. If you are lucky, the tank grunts to see if everyone is ready. However, usually he just takes off and half the DPS or more follows. We run through the dungeon at a breakneck pace. There is no chance for anyone, much less someone new, to get a chance to take in their surroundings (in the timed dungeons we have here, this might not be a bad thing though).

If someone gets a chance, and is brave (because people new at things typically aren't), they might pipe up and say they are new and need help. This might get them some patience from the others, or it might get them kicked. You must be very careful to do what your role requires. If you don't play like everyone thinks you should, you might get kicked. If your dps isn't high enough, you can't take every monster in the room as tank, or you can't heal entire health bars in one shot, you might get kicked. If they don't like your gear, you might get kicked (I'm leary of addons for these reasons as well). I have witnessed examples of all of these, usually without a single bit of warning to the kickee.

If we make it through to the end (I've been a part of more failed starts than I care to remember), and if there isn't a fight over ninja looting or some such, then everyone leaves. They usually do not say goodbye. If anyone does actually say anything through the whole thing, it's usually very rude, if not downright vulgar. Of course, it's not like this every time, but the higher level you get, the worse it gets.

This attitude I described, eventually does leak into the game. WoW notoriously has one of the worst communities of mmo gaming. Is it directly because of the LFG? No. But does it feed it? Yes. After getting done with one dungeon, people immediately que up for another, like running back in line for a roller coaster. It is completely unnecessary to interact with a single person, or step outside a single city, to make it through the game.

If SE doesn't want to see this kind of thing plaguing their game, they will need to come up with ways to counteract it. I think there is a such thing as being too convenient. At the very least, I think a blacklist is needed. I'd even like to see the opposite, a "green list" for people you enjoyed playing with, so that if you both que up again, you would get joined up in the same group. I also think maybe there should be a lockout after successfully completing a dungeon, or a limit on how many randoms you can do in one day perhaps. This would cause people to need to actually do other things, and would be healthier for the game environment overall, I think. The aid of the finder would be there for people needing it, but it would cut down on the abuse of it, plus help keep people from completing content too quickly, which is a growing problem in mmos.

[indira]

double post

[indira]

My question is ... why does it have to be cross-world?? What is the added in player benefit of making it cross-world instead of keeping it native-world?

higher chance of people wanting to do what you want to do. and when server hit high & lows in population there will always be people & LAG during the high season

[Bearforce]

you also have a chance to start making party,s and not use cross-world dungeon functions. i prefer not wait/make party,s for hours. true story: i remembered lvling redmage while making my party's and a bluemage begged me to join my party and said he "didnt find any exp party,s for monthes". now i would be sad if cross-world dungeon functions is not being implemented. tbh lets not kid ourselves and say the "community quality will crumble because of cross-dungeons", there are many ninja-looters. asshats. retards in every server that a community will do nothing about. the best thing if you encountered these individuals is why not blacklist them so you can never see them again?

[HoolieWho]

If SE doesn't want to see this kind of thing plaguing their game, they will need to come up with ways to counteract it. I think there is a such thing as being too convenient. At the very least, I think a blacklist is needed. I'd even like to see the opposite, a "green list" for people you enjoyed playing with, so that if you both que up again, you would get joined up in the same group.

Great post. Chezen nails the pros and cons as I see them.

I want good seek/search party formation tools with an auto-grouping content finder as a supplement.

But anyway! At the end of the day, if you are unhappy for any reason with your party, you can just leave and hit the button again, oh and the content finder will even find you a replacement so everyone is happy

This is the type of attitude a content finder fosters.

[Nuru]

I do NOT want to look for a party for hours....

If this is ANYWAY sovles the horrid that was ff11 in this matter then DOOOO ETTTT!!!!.

/thread

I might as well just quote what i was going to post. I don't think it could be a bad thing unless drops are the main topic at hand, but cross-world or not, drops will always be an issue. Making dungeons cross-server will just make it easier to do as many runs as you'd like.

[Dreamer]

Even in the current state of the game, I've never spent hours looking for a party. An influx of new players combined with a more intuitive party building system will cure most of the problems people have mentioned.

[Zoltan]

They have annouced that cross-serger grouping is coming, but the have not specified what they will do for grouping or how they plan to implement it. They have not indicated whether they will use a dungeon finder model, but it sure appears to be likely.

I know that some have said that they are welcoming this feature, but I hope they offer an alternative manner of grouping similar to the FFXI model. This allowed you to choose from your server community and set up the party how you liked because, like it or not, there are people who you did not want to party with.

Honestly, I dont want a party with 3 dragoons, 2 pups, 1 bst, 1 warrior and a dancer healing.

There is a sense of community on a server when you get to know people and recognize them. I'd rather have the choice to not use a dungeon finder. Players should have different options other than always having to wait on your friends availability or grouping with total strangers. The single server based grouping model encouraged interaction between players. There were groups that you could join if you were on different jobs. You could choose to start the party yourself.

With the /seacom feature, you could describe your characters gear and knowledge or the fact that you even used food to enhance your play. Those were important when forming parties.

Do we really need another MMO with a dungeon finder? Hasn't that been done before? I really don't look forward to playing Final Fantasy when its instanced dungeons and a cloned dungeon finder.

[Buuul]

I don't see the downside.
Casual players can get parties.
Players with active LS can go with their LS.

What seems to be the issue? Allowing people easier access to a dungeon isn't restricting anyone from forming a party the old fashioned way.

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

Is Producer/Director Yoshida's plan to implement cross-world dungeons a good idea? What are the positive benefits? What are the negative repercussions?

I've been asking myself these questions for the last couple weeks. My MMO instincts tell me that this is a bad idea. My personal friends who play World Of Warcraft tell me that it ruined that game for them. The few comments that I have seen on these forums on the subject seem to be violently negative.

But I feel like I'm only getting half of the story. Producer/Director Yoshida seems to be very much in favor of this system, but he doesn't really explain why, or demonstrate what the gameplayer will gain when such a system is implemented. Can anyone in the community see any merit for implementing cross-world dungeons?

I'm looking to start an open and honest discussion taking both sides of the argument into account. But if we can't figure out any positive benefit for cross-world servers, then we need to let Producer/Director Yoshida know in no uncertain terms that we do not want it implemented.

The pros of cross server instancing (to me) is increasing the selection pool of players interested in the same content at that level range. For low population servers and lonely time zones, this is great! If you're looking for population from your own server, you would assemble a party as done now or the search tool to find parties.

Drawback, making friends (or enemies) cross server and having no decent way to keep up comms or link up again (or avoid linking up again).