Proposed System Change

[Aldarin]

I examined the initial game system to try and determine the initial concept. After the examination I came to the conclusion that SE was attempting to create a combination Class-based and Skill-based system. This was done by expanding the initial class-based system to have more of a skill based system for actions. Unfortunately, it seems as though the initial attempt has confused many players due to a lack of structure. In this case I fell that is because the game was approached from the class based side, which has more structure, but lacks the traits necessary to support skill-based decisions. Due to this I am proposing a basic system that attempts to keep a similar feel to the initial game, as well as adds in concepts that give a class-based feel. Some of these ideas are built off of suggestion by other people on the forum. I have made no suggestions regarding content because while I am good at system analysis, I suck at content analysis and creation. Also having experience in programming, I have attempted to structure suggestions and ideas in a way that they are simple to understand and easy to implement, though there are some drastic changes suggested.

In my proposed system I am breaking the connection between class and roles. The player’s role will then be determined by their specialization, while their class controls their current level as well as what abilities they are learning.

In order to structure the system, a player’s specifications change upon weapon switch. This allows players to play multiple types of characters. A player’s specification are as follows, Level, Primary Specialization, Secondary Specialization, Title, Abilities, Weapon. The player’s level determines the number of attribute points to be assigned. The player’s specializations will have some minor benefits, and may lead to a title. Titles are unlocked and provide a minor unique ability to a character with appropriate specializations. The players abilities are determined by the player, though limited by the points available for action assignment. The player’s weapon may unlock some abilities, however it primarily states the tract of abilities currently being learned.

As this is confusing I will represent parts in a graphical manner.

Player Name: xxxxxx
Level: XX
Primary Specialization: xxxxxxx
Secondary Specialization: xxxxxxx
Title: xxxxxx
Ability Bar
Weapon

Attributes now control all character attributes including HP, MP, etc……. remove the class modifiers.

The specializations are chosen in the attribute menu:
Primary Specialization: xxxxxx
Secondary Specialization: xxxxxxx
Attributes Table

The player can have a number of specializations that provide minor benefits, an example table is below

Specialization ------- Primary Benefits ----------- Secondary Benefits
Melee Damage ------ +5% physical damage ---- +2.5% physical damage
-------------------- +5% physical accuracy --- +2.5% physical accuracy
Defense ------------ +5% physical defense ---- +2.5% physical defense
-------------------- +5% magical defense ------ +2.5% magical defense
Magical Attack ----- +5% magical damage ------ +2.5% magical damage
-------------------- +5% magical accuracy ---- +2.5% magical accuracy
Support ------------ +5% Healing -------------- +2.5% Healing
-------------------- +5% Buff Duration -------- +2.5% Buff Duration


These specializations can then be used to access titles, which give some unique minor benefit.
An example of how this works is below.

Primary Specialization ----- Secondary Specialization ---- Possible Titles
Melee Damage ------------- Melee Damage ---------------- Warrior
------------------------------------------------------------ Monk
Melee Damage ------------- Support------------------------- Dancer
Melee Damage ------------- Defense ------------------------ Soldier
Melee Damage ------------- Magical Attack ----------------- Dark Knight
Support --------------------- Support ------------------------ White Mage
Support --------------------- Melee Damage ---------------- Bard
Support --------------------- Defense ------------------------ Cleric
Support --------------------- Magical Attack ----------------- Scholar
Defense --------------------- Melee Damage ---------------- Guardian
Defense --------------------- Support ------------------------ Paladin
Defense --------------------- Magical Attack ----------------- Mystic Knight
Defense --------------------- Defense ------------------------ Defender
Magical Attack -------------- Magical Attack ------------------ Black Mage
Magical Attack -------------- Melee Damage ----------------- Red Mage
Magical Attack ------------- Support ------------------------- Sage
Magical Attack -------------- Defense ------------------------- ?????



These titles could have quests to unlock them, and simply show as ???? and provide no benefit until unlocked.

The point of this system is to allow players to have some of the old FF feel while keeping the new feel and variety of choices available.

The Weapon that you are wielding simply becomes what set of abilities you are learning at the time, similar to equipment in Final Fantasy Tactics Advance. The weapon might also allow access to some unique skills.

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Character Creation Defined. Next Step: Party Formation

First, while I like the idea of reducing the workload on party leaders, the current system does not allow players access to as much information as the FFXI party seek. The system needs a major face-lift and overhaul.

Methods of Party Creation
a. Party Seek Function
b. Party Positions Available

Step 1:
Party seek allows for the display of a large amount of information, such as how many people are looking for parties, what jobs people are playing, what level these people are at.
People should be allowed to toggle a party flag and add their name to a list of people looking for a party.

Information added to list:
Player Name, Level, Weapon Icon, Primary Specialization, Secondary Specialization, Title

Next add a search function where players can look for people by specialization.

Step 2:
Party Positions Available
Party Size is expected to decrease to a maximum of 8 people.
Layout:

Number of People to Search For: xxxxx
1. Level Range, Specialization Desired
2. Level Range, Specialization Desired
3. Level Range, Specialization Desired
4. Level Range, Specialization Desired
5. Level Range, Specialization Desired
6. Level Range, Specialization Desired
7. Level Range, Specialization Desired

Lets people know what roles are desired and what level range to be in.

_________________________________________________________________________________
Party Formation Defined. Next Step: Party Play

There is already stuff to do when in a party, most notably Levelquests

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Party Play companion: Combat

Changes……
1. Removal of the stamina system
Any game needs a timer for ability balance. However there is already a universal cool down associated with abilities, the second universal cool down is unnecessary and adds to the amount players need to keep tract of. As of now it seems to serve no useful purpose and adds annoyance to many players. Toss it.

2. Auto-Attack***
Spamming a single button over and over again does not make for a fun game, it simply makes things tiring. Auto-attack removes this tedium and also provides an easily adjustable field for adding the benefits of dual wield when looking forward.

Please refrain from posting further opinions regarding auto-attack in this thread. I know this is a controversial topic. While it does require discussion, I feel such a discussion would be better served in one of the already dedicated threads on auto-attack.

3. Shield Blocking
Again, spamming a single button is not fun, this also has discrepancies with the other forms of damage mitigation. Evade and Parry do not require button presses, why should blocking with a shield. (especially since blocking is parrying with a shield). Adjust Shield Blocking to reduce the need for spamming. One possible way to do this is to have a base blocking rate based off of the shield, and turn guard into a longer duration stance that increases blocking rate.

4. Give Area of Effect to everyone. Make Area of Effect Spells cost 3x MP and give the ability to everyone.

5. Change optimal level to required level ( A level 1 character is casting Ultima ?!?!?!)

6. An ongoing balance of abilities. (needed in every game and is a continuous process).

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Combat System now determined, moving on to: Equipment

Changes: remove favored classes, remove required classes.
The equipment already favors certain classes over others with the attribute. As attributes become more important there is no need to have favored classes and that simply adds confusion.
Can add a required specialty, but again, not needed.

Unique Armors:
Do not require a specific weapon to be wielded to use the armor. (This armor benefits Damage Dealers, but because you are attacking with fists you can’t wear it……????)

Could be obtained on quests that require a specific level 50 weapon.
Could instead require a specific title for use, which would make sense.

_________________________________________________________________________________
Content: other than say fix the system first, no comment.

While I am suggesting some drastic changes, I feel that the proposed system would fix a large number of the current issues and would provide a unique game to the Final Fantasy Series.

[Arcell]

I'm not sure they should remove the stamina system. It's fine the way it is, I've never had any trouble adjusting to using it.

Now if they added auto-attack I'd like to see them either reduce or remove the stamina cost for the normal attack and balance it's damage accordingly. While using a gamepad it is annoying to have to move back to 1 every time you want to use a regular attack. Adding in auto-attack allows us to hover around other skills we want to use so we can respond more quickly.

I don't think they should remove required/favored classes. In fact we know they're moving towards more rank/class specific gear and I think that's much better. Removing requirements brings us to the original problem with the armoury system in regards to gear in that it has almost no structure. It suggests ranks and classes but it does not enforce it in any way, leading to people with either no idea what to do or wearing anything they want and wondering why they're getting 1-shotted.

I don't think shield blocking should be automatic, I think it should be a stance you can toggle. Hit the skill once, shield raised. Hit the skill a second time, shield lowered. Sure it would negate the need for the Gladiator guild mark trait but they could always change it to something else like increasing the block chance or something of the like.

[SirEdeonX]

I think auto-attack is even more boring than actually selecting an attack.

It's true it allows you to chat in battle, but with auto-attack you would just not battle. If with the way things are, you just press the standard attack over and over again, with auto attack, you wouldn't even press a button while battling.

I like being able to attack when I want.

For the stamina.. Hmm.. I like it. Its like FFXIII, where every action you do has a cost. It drives away from the turn based battles.

As for all the rest, kudos ;P

[Malakhim]

I have a question though.

On average, what players would like to see an auto-attack and which would not? IE, is it mostly mages who want it, or melees or relatively equal mix of both? I'm a melee player mostly myself, and I appreciate the more active system, but that's cause I'm constantly doing different things. I could imagine though that for a mage, aside from casting a spell every now and then, they WOULD actually be hitting 1 over and over again being that it's technically their only "attack".

[SirEdeonX]

I have a question though.

On average, what players would like to see an auto-attack and which would not? IE, is it mostly mages who want it, or melees or relatively equal mix of both? I'm a melee player mostly myself, and I appreciate the more active system, but that's cause I'm constantly doing different things. I could imagine though that for a mage, aside from casting a spell every now and then, they WOULD actually be hitting 1 over and over again being that it's technically their only "attack".

Hmm that's a good question Well, if they do implement auto-attack, I'd like an option to turn it off I like to be active in battle. And I haven't noticed all the "same button smashing" cuz I'm constantly doing other actions too lol

[Arcell]

I'm a melee player but the main reason I'm actually for auto-attack is for gamepad use. Always coming back to row 1 space 1 to normal attack is an annoyance. I can't keep my cursor around my other attacks too long without having to go back and sometimes timing is important.

[SirEdeonX]

I'm a melee player but the main reason I'm actually for auto-attack is for gamepad use. Always coming back to row 1 space 1 to normal attack is an annoyance. I can't keep my cursor around my other attacks too long without having to go back and sometimes timing is important.

I actually use a gamepad too. Well, we gotta live with that ;P
Maybe an option that for everytime you use an ability, the cursor returns to the auto attack. Like in any other FF, when you use a skill or anything, the command window shows up with attack highlighted ;P

[Aldarin]

I don't think they should remove required/favored classes. In fact we know they're moving towards more rank/class specific gear and I think that's much better. Removing requirements brings us to the original problem with the armoury system in regards to gear in that it has almost no structure. It suggests ranks and classes but it does not enforce it in any way, leading to people with either no idea what to do or wearing anything they want and wondering why they're getting 1-shotted.

The required/favored classes support the concept of the weapon being the job. While this works well in a class-based RPG, it does not work as well in a skill-based rpg, which is more along the lines of what I'm suggesting. It also does not make sense in the proposed system.

This armor benefits Damage Dealers, but because you are attacking with fists/etc. you can’t wear it……????

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I don't think shield blocking should be automatic, I think it should be a stance you can toggle. Hit the skill once, shield raised. Hit the skill a second time, shield lowered. Sure it would negate the need for the Gladiator guild mark trait but they could always change it to something else like increasing the block chance or something of the like.

Great idea and I would support this implementation as an alternative.

The main reason for my suggestion is to avoid the need for shield spamming. The reason I would prefer the blocking to be automatic and a stance to enhance blocking rate is because that shares a similar theme with the other forms of damage mitigation. Both parry and evade are automatic, and have stances that increase their rate.

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I'm not sure they should remove the stamina system. It's fine the way it is, I've never had any trouble adjusting to using it.

The reason to remove the stamina bar is not due to current issues. I actually like the concept of the stamina bar. The issue is that there is both a stamina bar and a universal cool-down associated with each ability. This means that abilities must then be balanced on both level, and that will probably cause issues when SE attempts to add new abilities like dual wield, as well as wen balancing abilities.

Not saying the stamina bar is a bad idea, just saying that it is currently redundant and may cause issues in the future. It would be easy to remove and would impact little due to the universal cool-downs already in place.

_________________________________________________________________________________

I think auto-attack is even more boring than actually selecting an attack.

It's true it allows you to chat in battle, but with auto-attack you would just not battle. If with the way things are, you just press the standard attack over and over again, with auto attack, you wouldn't even press a button while battling.

With auto-attack there would still be many things to do, as the abilities in FFXIV are quicker and have lower cool-down timers. While players could simply let auto-attack run, they would be far more effective paying attention and using abilities.

Auto-attack is not a necessity to the system, I simply feel it has more benefits than drawbacks, as well as being somewhat simple to add.
_________________________________________________________________________________

Please refrain from posting further opinions regarding auto-attack in this thread. I know this is a controversial topic. While it does require discussion, I feel such a discussion would be better served in one of the already dedicated threads on auto-attack.

[AlexiaKidd]

I personally want rid of this whole weapon=class stuff, it adds nothing but confusion they could make the classes actual jobs CON, MRD, GLA and so on and allow them to use different weapons. Just make the weapons the same as gear, rank and class optimal ie THM with sword

I would like them to remove the stamina bar and replace it with weapon delay and just use cool downs. This would allow for better choice and strategy with weapons ie do I take low delay and low DMG over high delay and high DMG

As for auto attack I really think it needs to be a toggle on/off as when I play Archer with how I play an auto attack would mess it up but when I play MRD it would be fine.

I like your ideas Aldarin so I hope they do something like this as it seems much more likely to happen than my wish of scrapping the current classes and going back to a more traditional defined style with BLM, WHM, WAR, DRK and so on.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

Auto attack is boring. I played ffxi as a melee rdm so I attacks and had stuff to do. And I would still perfer manual attack. I likezelda games instead of baulders gate type games.

Personally I hated ffxiii battle system sorry but.... ya it starts out fast then get awkwardly slow. pres pres pres watch isn't fun. I liked ff12 battle system but perfer say elder scrolls or zelda system. As simple as it was fights in zelda are pretty epic. no matter what number.