Is it true that holding aggro 100% of the time isn't possible at low levels?

[Fluffernuff]

Depending on what low level dungeon we are talking about, i would say.... yes and no.

Yes in the fact that its entirely possible to hold aggro 100% of the time..... IF the mob's life expectancy is low... and your DPS arent just synced down nuclear warheads (lookin' at you, archer, and thaumaturge)
No in the fact of... well, resources arent unlimited. in a bubble, and mathmetically, a tank has the POTENCY of emnity to keep up, but in practice, cooldowns and resources dont line up. an Archer's DoTs and AoE deal far mor Emnity for far longer than a Gladiator can Flash or a Marauder can Overpower. the only low level tank with ACTUAL limitless pool of emnity is DRK, but if we're talking newbie sprouts? well they aint going to be stepping into sastash the first time as a DRK.

I would actually say emnity in the lowest lowest levels (depending on what synced monstrosity is there to carry y'all), is much more akin to a race. its your emnity generation and your TP/MP vs their DPS. the finish line is the boss' HP.
Most of us tanking vets have the synced gear and general know-how to win this race. we all know the "power" of flash and overpower. we know how many we can or cant use so we dont hold up the group. all we CAN really say is "use flash/overpower! alot!" mainly because its the only tool we have synced that low and the only tool that can really win that race most of the time.

As lazy or as simple as it sounds, thats what it comes down to. emnity is an absolute. you either have more emnity or you dont. it doesnt matter if that bar is full. that BLM can be 99 and you can be 100, you're still the target.

All that said, I still believe that with the tools given to us that low, that in a fight that is literally endless, you will lose emnity 100% of the time. LUCKILY.... things will usually die before that happens

[Tsilyi]

I tried to hold hate in the level 24 dungeon with my dark knight but i had my guildmate with me and he was leveling his black mage and he took away from me 3 mobs in the whole dungeon, because he hit 1 mob and the other dps hit another one so i had to switch target everytime, but nothing complicated to handle, i always started with unmend>scourge>unleash>hate combo>unleash>switch target>scourge>switchtarget>scourge>and so on, i also used the power that increase reduces your recast of skills to do more unleash when needed

I would recommend not using scourge or other attacks (other than the beginning of the threat combo) that provide no additional threat bonus unless absolutely necessary, such as to replenish mp as needed, especially at low levels and before getting grit at 30.

My general rule of thumb is to unleash/flash/overpower (depending on tank) as many times as there are mobs in your pull before moving to do anything else in particular, at least at lower levels and when you are pulling fewer mobs at once. In larger pulls later on with tank stance and a good weapon you may not need to aoe threat as much.

The most important thing at low levels is to recognize when you can stop attacking a particular mob and start getting advance threat on the next, making good use of the 2nd or 3rd part of your hate combo by tabbing it onto other mobs in the pull as needed.

[Ahrniel]

From my personal experience both playing the class and being in a team with the class at low level dungeons, Gladiators seem to be deficient in tanking capabilities.

I believe the fact Flash doesn't cause damage is pretty much the main reason Gladiator can't tank well enough. Marauder also causes more damage in the long run, I made some calculations before, in 30s, at lv.26, Marauder causes 3948 worth of potency damage, while Gladiator causes 3367. In 20s Marauder gets 2928 while Gladiator gets 2041. The reason why Gladiator picks up later on is because Fight Or Flight lasts longer than Berserk, 20s to 30s. But the start of Gladiator is slow compared to Marauder, and this damage I calculated doesn't even consider the Overpower/Flash start, just the main combos with available damage buffs of the classes. Gladiator stays too much behind in enmity production.

My personal suggestion is to level up Gladiator outside dungeons until you get Rage of Halone, because if you don't you will have a pretty frustrating experience.
If you still want to level up in dungeons anyway, mark your enemies' order of attack, don't double pull so that pesky Archer or Thaumaturge doesn't start AoEing, because if they do, bye bye aggro of half the mobs, because as a Gladiator you just can't handle causing enough enmity to many enemies at once like Marauder can, and pray everyone will behave and do as you tell.

My second personal suggestion is to drop Gladiator at Lv.22 and play Marauder, for Provoke. That's it.

[Shurrikhan]

It's not impossible, but it's more difficult, and frequently more wasteful (especially if you're having to, say, spam Flash to hold on, which itself does no damage, when the group members aren't all AoEing anyways).

The tank not losing hate is a shared effort. It just should never come at the cost of raid dps (read, basically but not entirely: DPS holding off outright).

[Rongway]

marking targets

Don't mark targets. Marking targets will make it easier to get into a situation where DDs and healers out-hate you, whether they follow the marks or not.

These:

your threat combo currently generates less threat every 2 GCDs than your AoE (overpower) does every 2 GCDs

Flash/Overpower are 600 potency, way more than any dps can do even in single target at low levels. Keep your gear up to date and use those two skills a lot and you shouldn't have aggro problems.

are how it is. Even syncked, they can't out-hate you if you use Flash/Overpower enough.

Besides that, on the part of the DDs to make your job as tank easier, they should be DoTing secondary targets, casters should be AoEing, and anyone who doesn't have infinite resource for AoE should be switching to the highest health targets as the bars go down. With their hate spread around like this, there's nothing mathematically that they can do to pull things off you.

[Otorinth]

Gladiator PoV against a couple of heavy hitters in C. Mines:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmO686TmJ5k

I kind of understand where some people are coming from when it comes to being brand new (and possibly having out-dated gear) and being synced down with DPS/Healers who are level 50+ ticking time-bombs . I probably wasn't using my tools at maximum efficiency, but I'm still brand-new to FFXIV. This thread has actually been pretty helpful for my game-play.

To be honest; I kind of like having to actively battle to hold aggro. Not many MMOs these days actually push me to stay on my toes like that.

[Fluffernuff]

Don't mark targets. Marking targets will make it easier to get into a situation where DDs and healers out-hate you, whether they follow the marks or not.

Marking certainly helps establish control when a newbie wouldn't otherwise have it. Mechanically, it doesnt help much, but its a nice placebo. Think of it like.... that unhealthy comfort food we all have.
It also helps to have 1 almost dead things get ripped away on 1 target than having 3 barely damaged things running around on 3 targets.

.....Marking would also be better if people followed them pre-30. I have yet to have a group of level synced players follow a mark order in anything below Haukke. That gets really fun when people decide to burn down cap'n before his goons and then suddenly: dogs. newbie healers have fun with that one

[Rongway]

Marking certainly helps establish control when a newbie wouldn't otherwise have it. Mechanically, it doesnt help much, but its a nice placebo. Think of it like.... that unhealthy comfort food we all have.
It also helps to have 1 almost dead things get ripped away on 1 target than having 3 barely damaged things running around on 3 targets.

.....Marking would also be better if people followed them pre-30. I have yet to have a group of level synced players follow a mark order in anything below Haukke. That gets really fun when people decide to burn down cap'n before his goons and then suddenly: dogs. newbie healers have fun with that one

Worse is the problem of Lv50 and 60 players not understanding the importance of a big (1) over a mob's head.

Using marks when they are mechanically unnecessary promotes bad play and decreases the impact of mechanically important marks.

Pre-30, the mobs that should be marked are

• Tam-Tara: During final fight, Imps if DDs don't understand that they're shielding Galvanth
• Copperbell Mines: During the slime fight, Ignore on the slime or bombs if necessary, (1) on the spriggan.
• Copperbell Mines: The last boss so DDs don't waste time on the mobs chipping away at the wall
• Toto-Rak: Graffias's Tail to stop it from turning the entire floor into a poison puddle

[Zieg_Einherjar]

Mostly, the DDs tend to peel off aggro from a mob or two. I do get it back, but they often times can get a swing in at the DD before I can fix the issue. I'm running the dungeons from low to high, wanting to master the old ones before doing a higher level dungeon. But I'm told that pre-30 losing aggro is normal (?) which is something I find hard to believe.

So am I a bad tank or my guildies giving it to me strait after all?

There are several variables which contribute to this condition.

1) DPS not choosing to cooperate and focus a single target, which is often seen in pick-up groups. Usually the people that attack targets willy-nilly know and expect that they could potentially peel the mob they're attacking off of you, and do not care too much if they do. They won't see this as a representation of your skill, but a result of their laziness (I am guilty of this myself sometimes!).

2) Item level plays it's part to some extent at lower levels. If you're waiting a few extra levels longer to buy a new weapon, and you're with people with at-level weapons, you will see a greater potential of a monster getting peeled from you.

3) Insufficient AoE enmity. At lower levels, I often "Flash" or "Overpower" three times when I pull a group of monsters to ensure the healer (who is generating enmity on ALL the targets by healing you) won't peel, and to lessen the impact of Reason 1) occuring.

Hope this helps.

[GeekMatt]

Gladiator PoV against a couple of heavy hitters in C. Mines:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmO686TmJ5k

I kind of understand where some people are coming from when it comes to being brand new (and possibly having out-dated gear) and being synced down with DPS/Healers who are level 50+ ticking time-bombs . I probably wasn't using my tools at maximum efficiency, but I'm still brand-new to FFXIV. This thread has actually been pretty helpful for my game-play.

To be honest; I kind of like having to actively battle to hold aggro. Not many MMOs these days actually push me to stay on my toes like that.

^Not many people appreciate GLA, and many are scared off by the learning curve (and by jerks in DF) unfortunately you lose this playstyle later on in the game and there's nothing like it. PLD becomes the most straight-forward tank—it has depth due to its utility but its utility is in general unneeded and often used inefficiently or not used at all.