Ifirit, how it could have been done better.

[Murugan]

I guess you don't care then how your people get drops. Are you sure you are an "endgame community"? Typically equitable and organized loot distribution is a large reason that people join endgame shells over say casual shells which spam content 24/7 and claim "endgame".

I mean I can sit in ul'dah with /shout and do the same thing, anyone can do this content, you might be the only one still bragging about livestreaming it but you aren't the only one killing him every day but I'd still rather be in an LS with others who I rely on and see as a team working towards shared goals and accomplishments.

Being able to help our members get the items they need most is a huge boon to this. Something they took away with the Ifrit fight. Now we break up into parties of 8 to spam this content, while repeatedly having to toss items we know each other could use and wish we could give to them.



So? We did the same thing in beta, it doesn't matter if all we can do is form groups then we may as well just be statics within a casual LS (I mean no offense if you run your LS as a "elite static group" based charity), or even not as part of an LS just pick ups.

Endgame LS have continuity, at least ours did until Ifrit. In darkhold or the world NM's we geared all our members with the drops they needed, and we prioritized those drops so that people got what they needed first and their participation was rewarded equitably.

This is how endgame has always worked in MMO's. Square Enix took that away from with us the way Ifrit's loot works. Personal loot lists? It is a slap in the face of anyone who has a real endgame community.




Rare loot is not unfair. Certain things should have rarity, but when they drop shouldn't we at least be able to decide who gets it?

I don't care about rarity. I care that myself, another lancer, a pugilist, a thaumaturge, a gladiator, an archer, a marauder and a fellow conjurer have all gotten multiple drops of Ifrit's Cane while a person who has been in our LS since almost the beginning, who carried this linkshell through tough times, who selflessly crafts and donates his time and resources for our linkshell cannot get a break on the drop he wants most.

If we had a loot system that worked, this man would have been the first person to have gotten what he wanted and everyone in our linkshell would have sat and applauded him because he deserved it.

Ditto for an archer who can't get bow she wants. A pugilist who had to watch countless others toss his drop before he finally got it. The list goes on... and I sit here wondering why all you can do is sneer at the fact that we were robbed of something in the game we enjoy: working as a team, and the pride in getting others the things we know they deserve.

Still don't understand why you're against Need or Greed. It solves all the problems you've brought up while eliminating the issues we've argued that a craftable drop brings to the table.

Did you only play WoW? Why can't you read my response to you on this exact subject four posts up? I said that yes simply having anything except a personal loot list system would solve my problem as long as we could regain control over loot distribution.

Need for Greed however refers to a specific type of loot system where a dialogue box appears allowing you to "need" or "greed", and need option is often locked to the class you are on. This would not work for FFXIV. Any loot system is not called Need for Greed unless your only point of reference is WoW. Honestly... we always had a loot list in this game and we could pass stuff just fine. I'd be fine with that. We never had any problems with it because we are an organized LS which trusts all of its members. Now for people who don't have that luxury a master looter, or need for greed system, or various other types of loot options could be beneficial.

For us? It doesn't matter. We dealt with loot long ago, and we were doing just fine until Ifrit and his moronic loot implementation.

[Holland]

Did you only play WoW? Why can't you read my response to you on this exact subject four posts up? I said that yes simply having anything except a personal loot list system would solve my problem as long as we could regain control over loot distribution.

Need for Greed however refers to a specific type of loot system where a dialogue box appears allowing you to "need" or "greed", and need option is often locked to the class you are on. This would not work for FFXIV. Any loot system is not called Need for Greed unless your only point of reference is WoW. Honestly... we always had a loot list in this game and we could pass stuff just fine. I'd be fine with that. We never had any problems with it because we are an organized LS which trusts all of its members. Now for people who don't have that luxury a master looter, or need for greed system, or various other types of loot options could be beneficial.

For us? It doesn't matter. We dealt with loot long ago, and we were doing just fine until Ifrit and his moronic loot implementation.

So SE should make a loot system only for your perfect LS?

Without taking into account how we're going to do content come 2.0 with the content finder?

No thanks. You need to take into account all changes coming into the game and take into account all things can also be achieved with pick up groups, total strangers even from different servers. SE will adjust the need/greed system to satisfy the armoury system.

[Murugan]

So SE should make a loot system only for your perfect LS?

Without taking into account how were going to do content come 2.0 with the content finder?

No thanks. You need to take into account all changes coming into the game and take into account all things can also be achieved with pick up groups, total strangers even from different servers. SE will adjust the need/greed system to satisfy the armoury system.

lol I'm not gonna do anything with the "content finder" I'm gonna do it with my perfect LS.

You need to take into account that not everyone needs the false sense of loot security a crutch like "need for greed" provides (false because anyone can still click a button to "ninja" your loot). Some of us play with adults who understand equity in distribution. SE should design a loot system that allows people to at the very least pass items...

oh wait they did. In Beta. Then they forced a personal loot list on us with Ifrit and screwed over all "perfect linkshells" who had their loot distribution figured out and were happy with it. Now we watch as people go 3/3 on items others have gone 0/100 on. It is broken.

[Dakin]

Did you only play WoW? Why can't you read my response to you on this exact subject four posts up? I said that yes simply having anything except a personal loot list system would solve my problem as long as we could regain control over loot distribution.

Need for Greed however refers to a specific type of loot system where a dialogue box appears allowing you to "need" or "greed", and need option is often locked to the class you are on. This would not work for FFXIV. Any loot system is not called Need for Greed unless your only point of reference is WoW. Honestly... we always had a loot list in this game and we could pass stuff just fine. I'd be fine with that. We never had any problems with it because we are an organized LS which trusts all of its members. Now for people who don't have that luxury a master looter, or need for greed system, or various other types of loot options could be beneficial.

For us? It doesn't matter. We dealt with loot long ago, and we were doing just fine until Ifrit and his moronic loot implementation.

I know what Need or Greed is. I played WoW extensively. No need to imply that I don't understand what it is. If player A has Lancer, Marauder, and Archer 50, and goes to an event on Lancer, he should be able to Need on gear for all 3. I understand you're saying it wouldn't work because of the class system, a player with all classes rank 50 could Need on everything OR only Need on gear for his current class (both ways have flaws). How about a player gets to designate his top 2 or 3 classes to Need for?

[Murugan]

I know what Need or Greed is. I played WoW extensively. No need to imply that I don't understand what it is. If player A has Lancer, Marauder, and Archer 50, and goes to an event on Lancer, he should be able to Need on gear for all 3. I understand you're saying it wouldn't work because of the class system, a player with all classes rank 50 could Need on everything OR only Need on gear for his current class (both ways have flaws). How about a player gets to designate his top 2 or 3 classes to Need for?

I don't care, I am never going to use it so you lobby them to design the stupid system however you and other WoW veterans want. I think it is pointless and stupid for reasons I have explained numerous times.

They better not lock us into it though, I at least want the level of options we had at launch. I want to be able to pass items, if I can do at least that frankly I am happy because then we can deal with loot ourselves, as a linkshell.

[Akuun]

So here's the argument i'm seeing, end game players don't want non end game players to be wearing end game gear.
Yet the crafters are the ones that still can make the "Best" gear in the game. So what's the point of end game content, if some crafter can make something better? There isn't even a need to complete the end game content to acquire it.

My suggestion makes the endgame content worth doing, as for others acquiring the gear or drops that comes down to greed of end game players who sell it to others. The other option, would be to do something like cursed gear in 11, where an NPC combines the crafted and dropped but if a crafter can still make a better piece, I still see it as pointless to do anything other than make as much gil as I can and buy what I want.

[Murugan]

So here's the argument i'm seeing, end game players don't want non end game players to be wearing end game gear.
Yet the crafters are the ones that still can make the "Best" gear in the game. So what's the point of end game content, if some crafter can make something better? There isn't even a need to complete the end game content to acquire it.

My suggestion makes the endgame content worth doing, as for others acquiring the gear or drops that comes down to greed of end game players who sell it to others. The other option, would be to do something like cursed gear in 11, where an NPC combines the crafted and dropped but if a crafter can still make a better piece, I still see it as pointless to do anything other than make as much gil as I can and buy what I want.

Yeah people don't want that because then they won't feel the same level of accomplishment from farming ifrit 200 times, or winning the personal lottery 7 times.

They'd much rather keep it absolutely broken, ignore the reality of gear hierarchy already in the game, and make snarky "sarcastic" responses to try and show how this all makes them in some way more hardcore than you.

[NoctisUmbra]

I'm pretty sure most people agree the current loot system for Ifrit sucks.

The problem is, the idea proposed by Akuun also sucks.

Let's see if what SE implements will suck too, because they're gonna do whatever they already have planned anyway.

[elreed]

Well i've said this already in other post but i agree that we shuldnt get a weapon just for killing Ifrit, i would prefer having mats as drops same chances if you want, but as they say that they wanted us to think that the weapons were made from ifrits parts, so in a good crafting system that we have now, that involves more stuff than we were just to, it would be great having more stuff to make, not just like i got the mat now i can get my weapon, more like i need this stuff too from this NM, so at the end theres a real achievement getting that weapon.

Yeah they should keep those things as rare/ex but they could upgrade the crafting system just adding a feature like the repair thing but to craft things without trading, so at the end theres not gonna be that much for RMT's to do. But thats my op. i think it would add a lot.

And please we need items to last longer to make the burden worthy....

0.02

[Brannigan]

Ifrit should drop some god damn horn fragments as the consolation prize instead of dark matter. Have him drop 1-8 horn fragments like he does for matter, turn in 25 fragments to that old jerk in Gridania and he gives you an Ifrit weapon of your choice. You still have the chance of getting a weapon straight away and it doesn't feel so god damn retarded when you get Dark Matter for the 30th time in a row like I have wooo

p.s. Dark matter consolation prizes are the dumbest thing. At least give me something I can turn into materia.