My personal changes to DRK/PLD

[Jukebox12]

you do know that pld without The CoS is going to lose dps on single targets which is most on bosses i would buff the DoT dmg and make flash 25 potency with the blind effect. Drk doesn't have a tp issue cuz blood weapon unless your mt tanking but even still War

[Martin_Arcainess]

Shield Oath/Sword Oath - No Longer on the GCD, has been put on the oGCD with a 10 second recast timer. MP Requirement still there.
"Yeah this I wouldn't mind but alternate the CD's a bit, maybe 5 seconds would be better with it having MP cost"

Sheltron - Can be used to either 100% block the next incoming attack (Vanila) or to make the next spell uninterruptible. Also while active allows the use of Shield Swipe, even if you haven't blocked. (OT Friendly)
"Sheltron dose black the next incoming attack, only physical though. As for the spell interupt I don't see a much use for that majorly.

Clemency - oGCD with 30s CD. still uses the same MP. Cure Potency of 1200 and TP restoration of 200. If cast on another party member the effect is halved on you also, like Vanila, but this time you'll get half the TP which is 100TP back
"Na don't put it on CD, it's a pretty potent heal spell with enough drawback of a castime and 2 use's before you have to gain back your MP as for the TP part, doesn't seem to fit into it well"


Circle of Scorn - Now on the GCD, same potency which is 100, but DoT is taken away. Uses TP or MP, I think TP would be the way to go to create self Clemency synergy.
"As much need for PLD having a AOE I think it needs a new one, I like how COS is at the moment"

Flash - Is now on the oGCD! same effect and MP usage as before, with a CD of something like 15-20s maybe more? maybe less. This will help with AoE and Single target aggro a lot, would be very handy on tank swaps and the such. Almost would say it might be worth Cross Classing now.
"Na, PLD has trouble keeping aggro in low level dungeons and if adds pop up during boss fights but your Flash is on CD you'll have some trouble do making this be a OCGD would make it hard for PLD/GLA to keep aggro. Maybe if it had another AOE Aggro skill then maybe yes"


Divine Veil - Give me a visual animation when it's proc'ed to show it's radius, similar to deployment tactics.
You mean by when you have it active the AOE circle shows for you and your members then it procs?

DRK

Grit - No Longer on the GCD, has been put on the oGCD with a 10 second recast timer. MP Requirement still there.
Putting it on reset GCD but off it doesn't. eh, I've got no real qualms with it, only that it's MP cost should be lowered.


Dark Dance - Dark Art's effect now just doubles the parry rate and grants a unique buff to 100% parry the next incoming attack to create synergy with Reprisal. This or do the same with how I want Sheltron to work, allow the use of Reprisal upon activation of Dark Dance. Making it OT friendly
"This I like, DRK should have more instant parry like WAR's."

Dark Passenger - Dark Art's effect now silences rather then blinds, make that emphasis on DRK being the mage tank more apparent.
See the thing about Silence use is when you see a Enemy readying a attack then you can instantly use it, to use this would require a DA+DP for the silence to be in effect other wise you wont have enough time"

Shadow Wall - Once active, along with the 30% mitigation, gives an MP refresh while active and negates Dark Side's draining effect while active, make this more unique then a watered down Sentinel.
Since your messing with MP and negating Darkside it would be used as a Damage buffer for a extra SE combo so maybe something else.


Blood Weapon - Allowed to use while inside Grit. Who uses Grit anyways? (I've always been argued for this one, maybe it would be broke?)
Blood weapons main purpose is for OTing otherwise as a MT you get your MP from hits with blood price so OT needs a way to regain MP. To enable it in the use of Grit would make it's MP gain a little too high, yes you can drop grit to use it whilst MTing but at a cost of extra damage.


Sole Survivor - Along with the HP and MP you get, restore 20% of TP as well, which would be 200TP
This I could get down with but need to alternate the TP cost so that it isn't too much.

[Katana190]

Shield Oath/Sword Oath - No Longer on the GCD, has been put on the oGCD with a 10 second recast timer. MP Requirement still there.
"Yeah this I wouldn't mind but alternate the CD's a bit, maybe 5 seconds would be better with it having MP cost"

Sheltron - Can be used to either 100% block the next incoming attack (Vanila) or to make the next spell uninterruptible. Also while active allows the use of Shield Swipe, even if you haven't blocked. (OT Friendly)
"Sheltron dose black the next incoming attack, only physical though. As for the spell interupt I don't see a much use for that majorly.

Clemency - oGCD with 30s CD. still uses the same MP. Cure Potency of 1200 and TP restoration of 200. If cast on another party member the effect is halved on you also, like Vanila, but this time you'll get half the TP which is 100TP back
"Na don't put it on CD, it's a pretty potent heal spell with enough drawback of a castime and 2 use's before you have to gain back your MP as for the TP part, doesn't seem to fit into it well"


Circle of Scorn - Now on the GCD, same potency which is 100, but DoT is taken away. Uses TP or MP, I think TP would be the way to go to create self Clemency synergy.
"As much need for PLD having a AOE I think it needs a new one, I like how COS is at the moment"

Flash - Is now on the oGCD! same effect and MP usage as before, with a CD of something like 15-20s maybe more? maybe less. This will help with AoE and Single target aggro a lot, would be very handy on tank swaps and the such. Almost would say it might be worth Cross Classing now.
"Na, PLD has trouble keeping aggro in low level dungeons and if adds pop up during boss fights but your Flash is on CD you'll have some trouble do making this be a OCGD would make it hard for PLD/GLA to keep aggro. Maybe if it had another AOE Aggro skill then maybe yes"


Divine Veil - Give me a visual animation when it's proc'ed to show it's radius, similar to deployment tactics.
You mean by when you have it active the AOE circle shows for you and your members then it procs?

DRK

Grit - No Longer on the GCD, has been put on the oGCD with a 10 second recast timer. MP Requirement still there.
Putting it on reset GCD but off it doesn't. eh, I've got no real qualms with it, only that it's MP cost should be lowered.


Dark Dance - Dark Art's effect now just doubles the parry rate and grants a unique buff to 100% parry the next incoming attack to create synergy with Reprisal. This or do the same with how I want Sheltron to work, allow the use of Reprisal upon activation of Dark Dance. Making it OT friendly
"This I like, DRK should have more instant parry like WAR's."

Dark Passenger - Dark Art's effect now silences rather then blinds, make that emphasis on DRK being the mage tank more apparent.
See the thing about Silence use is when you see a Enemy readying a attack then you can instantly use it, to use this would require a DA+DP for the silence to be in effect other wise you wont have enough time"

Shadow Wall - Once active, along with the 30% mitigation, gives an MP refresh while active and negates Dark Side's draining effect while active, make this more unique then a watered down Sentinel.
Since your messing with MP and negating Darkside it would be used as a Damage buffer for a extra SE combo so maybe something else.


Blood Weapon - Allowed to use while inside Grit. Who uses Grit anyways? (I've always been argued for this one, maybe it would be broke?)
Blood weapons main purpose is for OTing otherwise as a MT you get your MP from hits with blood price so OT needs a way to regain MP. To enable it in the use of Grit would make it's MP gain a little too high, yes you can drop grit to use it whilst MTing but at a cost of extra damage.


Sole Survivor - Along with the HP and MP you get, restore 20% of TP as well, which would be 200TP
This I could get down with but need to alternate the TP cost so that it isn't too much.

Thanks for the feedback! I honestly think the whole bringing the other 2 tanks up to WAR standards will be resolved with 4.0 like Yoshi P has said, it's just fun to try and come up with some stuff if they were to do it now. But some of these seem a bit broke as stated x)

Edit: The Divine Veil change would just be a visual thing, the initial animation with the sword flip is really cool! don't get me wrong. It's just when you heal it/get healed, it doesn't show any visual effect to show it's gone off and to show it's radius. making a similar animation to deploy would be really cool!

you do know that pld without The CoS is going to lose dps on single targets which is most on bosses i would buff the DoT dmg and make flash 25 potency with the blind effect. Drk doesn't have a tp issue cuz blood weapon unless your mt tanking but even still War

I realised this after posting tbh. The whole CoS being a gcd instead would indeed decrease PLD's single target damage... So altering flash's animation and name like I previously stated might be a better way forward. But they'll probably just get some AoE in 4.0

[Martin_Arcainess]

Np, I just think people take these things all too seriously and shouldn't really because it's just a suggestion and shouldn't expect spot on answers.

[MagiusNecros]

junk

DADP+DADD is useful for mitigating most if not all damage on large groups that can be blinded. By expending all of your MP to increase your evasion you can safely drop Grit and go ham on everything and once your evasion boosts wear off you can pop both Grit and Blood Price back on. It's a win-win. Hullbreaker Hard? Rhiki's Fell Cleave? I've dodged it. It can work in niche circumstances but when it does oh is it SATISFYING!

In situations where mobs or a boss(especially bosses where the devs do not allow you to dodge a Tankbuster ever) cannot be blinded you can forego enhancing DD for a strict increased Parry rate. In most raids they make everything immune to everything but there are instances where some mobs are effected and the evasion boosts can be utilized.

You suggest changes yet are not specific about them. You mention Flash and CoS yet say nothing about switching level of acquisition with them. Do not make assumptions that it was a given. You clarify that so no one is confused. If anything you are nitpicking because your suggestion can easily be interpreted as bad because of that fact. Especially with the asinine design decision to give PLD their Tank stance at level 40. The other 2 get their's at 30. 30!

WAR is oGCD because the other 2 get 20% DR effective immediately. Warrior does not. They get increased HP and additional healing received and are reliant on IB and other defensive skills for any DR at all. The other 2? Nope.

Here I'll run down the rest of your suggestions and base them around a raiding environment since apparently that's the only thing that you care about.

Sheltron/Dark Dance - You want to basically auto-proc SS/Reprisal for free or guarantee a free spell. Helpful for OT utilities yes but ultimately goes against design policy. Ergo requires an actual block or parry to work and make sense. And honestly if you want to double Parry Rate why not be a lame and just give 100% parry chance on next physical attack? But let's not get ahead of ourselves with Raw Intuition AKA "Parry: The Skill".

Clemency - Let's be honest the only reason you want a TP restore on this is because a PLD in long fights is drained of all their TP and is in dire need of a TP restore function. WAR can restore their own and a DRK doesn't even need it with all their oGCD and MP using skills to the point they can pop Sprint and not give a shit.

CoS/Flash - Concept is good. Failing to mention level of acquisition is not. But if you make Flash oGCD wouldn't you have to make OP and Unleash oGCD as well? Balance issues abound.

Divine Veil - This is a good suggestion. And should be applied to every beneficial support skill with a radius of effect.

Dark Passenger - Other classes can silence for free. Most stuff you use DP on can't be silenced anyway. You now have a straight line AoE attack. And you lose mitigation on dodging attacks. Wheee! You want an AoE silence? Allow us to DA Salted Earth! AoE passive silence for all but the DRK who used it. Wow amazing! PvP potential too! Even more amazing!

Shadow Wall - An okay suggestion. I'd rather we just rip off WAR's Vengeance though but get double the MP restore if BP is in effect.

Blood Weapon - I'd say to make it usable in Grit but here's the thing. In Grit it gives HP restores instead of MP and outside of Grit it gives back MP. And would help with DRK's problem of HP sustain.

Sole Survivor - Yes let's give a TP restore you don't even need. Don't even need! Why not allow us to target Party Members if you know they'll die. Hell just make it a drain spell. PLD and WAR essentially have on demand 1200 potency heals, the DRK well something has to die by players or by mechanics within 15 seconds or rip you.

And with Delirium it's amazing how with a Monk it's secondary effect is rendered worthless.

Those are my thoughts.

[Katana190]

DADP+DADD is useful for mitigating most if not all damage on large groups that can be blinded. By expending all of your MP to increase your evasion you can safely drop Grit and go ham on everything and once your evasion boosts wear off you can pop both Grit and Blood Price back on. It's a win-win. Hullbreaker Hard? Rhiki's Fell Cleave? I've dodged it. It can work in niche circumstances but when it does oh is it SATISFYING!

In situations where mobs or a boss(especially bosses where the devs do not allow you to dodge a Tankbuster ever) cannot be blinded you can forego enhancing DD for a strict increased Parry rate. In most raids they make everything immune to everything but there are instances where some mobs are effected and the evasion boosts can be utilized.

You suggest changes yet are not specific about them. You mention Flash and CoS yet say nothing about switching level of acquisition with them. Do not make assumptions that it was a given. You clarify that so no one is confused. If anything you are nitpicking because your suggestion can easily be interpreted as bad because of that fact. Especially with the asinine design decision to give PLD their Tank stance at level 40. The other 2 get their's at 30. 30!

WAR is oGCD because the other 2 get 20% DR effective immediately. Warrior does not. They get increased HP and additional healing received and are reliant on IB and other defensive skills for any DR at all. The other 2? Nope.

Here I'll run down the rest of your suggestions and base them around a raiding environment since apparently that's the only thing that you care about.

Sheltron/Dark Dance - You want to basically auto-proc SS/Reprisal for free or guarantee a free spell. Helpful for OT utilities yes but ultimately goes against design policy. Ergo requires an actual block or parry to work and make sense. And honestly if you want to double Parry Rate why not be a lame and just give 100% parry chance on next physical attack? But let's not get ahead of ourselves with Raw Intuition AKA "Parry: The Skill".

Clemency - Let's be honest the only reason you want a TP restore on this is because a PLD in long fights is drained of all their TP and is in dire need of a TP restore function. WAR can restore their own and a DRK doesn't even need it with all their oGCD and MP using skills to the point they can pop Sprint and not give a shit.

CoS/Flash - Concept is good. Failing to mention level of acquisition is not. But if you make Flash oGCD wouldn't you have to make OP and Unleash oGCD as well? Balance issues abound.

Divine Veil - This is a good suggestion. And should be applied to every beneficial support skill with a radius of effect.

Dark Passenger - Other classes can silence for free. Most stuff you use DP on can't be silenced anyway. You now have a straight line AoE attack. And you lose mitigation on dodging attacks. Wheee! You want an AoE silence? Allow us to DA Salted Earth! AoE passive silence for all but the DRK who used it. Wow amazing! PvP potential too! Even more amazing!

Shadow Wall - An okay suggestion. I'd rather we just rip off WAR's Vengeance though but get double the MP restore if BP is in effect.

Blood Weapon - I'd say to make it usable in Grit but here's the thing. In Grit it gives HP restores instead of MP and outside of Grit it gives back MP. And would help with DRK's problem of HP sustain.

Sole Survivor - Yes let's give a TP restore you don't even need. Don't even need! Why not allow us to target Party Members if you know they'll die. Hell just make it a drain spell. PLD and WAR essentially have on demand 1200 potency heals, the DRK well something has to die by players or by mechanics within 15 seconds or rip you.

And with Delirium it's amazing how with a Monk it's secondary effect is rendered worthless.

Those are my thoughts.

You see. Your actually constructive in this post. But still calling my quote "Junk", Wtf is that about? You obviously seem to have something against me, or just a very rude nature, which really discredits yourself. Maybe you hate the fact that creating a job around raiding only brings positives things to a job.. rather then designing a skill for only dungeons making it garbage in any other scenario.

But let's break some of this down.

Sole Survivor - change as I said is more something different. I've just had in my head before the Blood Weapon change, a bit worthless mentioning it now but meh

Shadow Wall - This would proceed to make it just a watered down Vengeance rather then Sentinel, I want something different to the other tank. Just my opinion though

Blood Weapon - This suggestion is pretty amazing tbh. Never thought of that.

Dark Passenger - as mentioned from someone else... getting off a silence with a DA + DP would be difficult to time.

Dark Dance/Sheltron - PLD's have it easy with this one, I usually just cover the MT and pop Sheltron. Free Shield Swipe. You can't really do this on DRK, there needs to be a way around this.. maybe popping Dark Art's allows the use of Reprisal?

Edit: If people really like the whole Blind + Dark Dance combo, then who am I to take that away from them. It's just not viable in raids and it annoys me, but NOBODY is telling me to DA - Dark Dance and Blind. It's optional, I can just use Dark Dance without DA and DA DP only when 2 + targets. It's not a dire change, just a suggestion I thought was worth mentioning, but obvsouly some people might find this enjoyable so, so be it I guess.

Edit 2: I've got good idea's from this thread so far tbh, and it's all really appreciated! Even if delivered in a pretty crude manor..

[Xenosan]

I'm fine with Grit/Oath being GCD, I guess from just being accustomed to it for so long now. An easier goal post to hit I think would be to allow the stances to toggle-off more responsively midGCD, instead of having to wait until 70+ % through the GCD before it sticks.

With that, Grit-off > Blood Weapon oGCD double-weaving wouldn't delay my GCD, and this fks with my rhythm v.v

It seems like a technical oversight and not deliberate design element anyway.

[Jim_Berry]

Dark Passenger - Dark Art's effect now silences rather then blinds, make that emphasis on DRK being the mage tank more apparent.

No, thanks!

The thing is, I'd rather Blind the mobs to reduce the chances of them hitting me. No all mobs use magic.

As a pet peeve, it bothers me when a player who is DRK main use Blood Price, then pop Dark Arts + Dark Passenger.

[MagiusNecros]

You see. Your actually constructive in this post. But still calling my quote "Junk", Wtf is that about?

I was lazy. And I prefer to not clot up the thread. That simple. Yes I am blunt and up front. Just how I am. Apologies if I offend you.

Make Shadow Wall do something unique then because right now it's just a watered down Sentinel and your changes make it a DRK version of Unchained IMO. Take off penalties is esentially what you want it to do which is Unchained. SW is in a strange place right now.

So you agree your suggestion on making DADP a silence isn't really helpful or unique. Plopping Silence on Delirium would be the better choice.

See DA gives the Evasion buff. DD by itself just gives increased Parry. And Reprisal's gimmick is that it's a counter move. IMO while DD is up Parry chance is increased and Reprisal has no cooldown while DD is in effect, but each time it is used requires another Parry to proc it.

Could probably add a trait where Low Blow has a chance to proc Reprisal much like a Parry has a chance to reset Low Blow CD. Counter moves should have a cooldown based on what procs it, not you got to use it and have to wait 30 seconds. More deeps and you get the debuff on the enemy to stick decreasing outgoing damage from the enemy. All good things and would give the DRK some OT utility to boot!

Nobody is telling you to DADP + DADD because it is an advanced technique only useful in niche encounters but has it's place there in those encounters. In raids not so much.

Sole Survivor. I really don't like having my 1200 potency heal locked behind the whims of the party when the other 2 Tanks essentially get their's every other minute of a fight. Not fair! We could use the buff it got in PvP if they want to keep it as a 120 second cooldown thing. Oh but then every party will run 1 DRK and 2 Ninja to keep Vulnerability up up once a minute for 10 seconds for anything and everything. And then we have disparity between party composition again. -_____-

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Only reason to use DADP if Blind doesn't work is more damage and MP is plentiful.

[FeliAiko]

People hyping up RNG mitigation (evasion)? There's a reason it's only effective against trash mobs....