Incentives for racing against other players

[Torvald]

It's been a long time now since chocobo racing has come out, and Lord of Vermillion and Triple Triad have cross server functionality now and it would sure be nice if chocobo racing would too, but before that.

Isn't it about time we got some incentives to make chocobo racing a more social activity? I have raced against 2 other people in the last two weeks while getting my challenge log done, and having them in the race really made it a lot more fun. Unfortunately one of us would always be getting lower mgp in the race, as opposed to when we are racing alone when we get a lot higher percentage of wins for mgp and also for the challenge log. So I often get competitors who quickly leave after one race, or wait before registering for the next race so that they don't end up in the same race with me again.

This design that rewards players for playing separately needs some attention.

At lower ranks, you do get an exp bonus for being in the same race as another player, but it does nothing for chocobos at max rank, which is where a lot of us are now. So please to SE, give us some sort of incentive for racing our chocobos together, so we don't feel compelled to race apart.

[Rufalus]

Yep... I've been in that position having to wait for a dominant player to stop racing, so that I can come back at an NPC-only time to get the wins needed for challenge log.

If a player has a more ideal stat distribution on their max rank chocobo, they will bring the same advantage over you into every race, and there's no quick way to remedy that, it means breeding and starting over from lower tier.

[UnaLihzeh]

Part of me almost wishes you could opt out of having non-NPCs in their race or something. The amount of sore losers I have come across because we were neck and neck and I ended up winning is really sad (one of them today actually required reporting).That way they can play by themselves if that's what they want.

It's super fun with more people if everyone is a good sport about it though. I love it when I get another player in.

[Eorzean_username]

I'm just getting started with Choco Racing, and right now I'm still working my way through so many other parts of FFXIV that I'm just doing my weekly CLog entries for Squadron Recruits. So I'm using a Pedigree 1 vendor bird with flat 2★ stats and no Hereditary ability.


Given that context, I have sharply split feelings when another player shows up in one of my races:

• Happy. It's a lot more fun. Racing the AI is really drab and dull. So at first, I'm happy, because hey — a real person! And the race will be more interesting. It breaks up the monotony.
• Extremely unhappy. I'm going to get flattened and bullied hard, penalized on MGP, and I'll have to queue yet again to make my way toward the end of this CLog entry that I just want to get done for the week. It invariably turns into me trying my best, and getting a chocobo's butt aggressively placed in my face the entire race until they find an opportunity to check me into a wall or trap me in a corner and Briar me into oblivion (or sometimes double Briar, however they manage to do that).

I'm not upset at the more skilled player for winning (or more developed, or hostile, or whatever makes them superior), but it is demoralizing and time-consuming in a situation where I'm not really looking for harsh competition. Especially randomly, it's like having the daily Trial Roulette secretly put you in the EX version 10% of the time.

I guess my point is that yes, I wish I didn't feel harshly-penalized for seeing another player (or even better, players, plural) in my chocobo race, because it makes the activity a lot more entertaining as a mini-game. But it also makes it a lot worse as a task that needs to be ground out. And very imbalanced for inexperienced players trying to figure everything out.

[UnaLihzeh]

So, some info: You aren't going to be in a race with a bird higher pedigree than you unless they're lower level than you, or they are about to rank out. The higher the pedigree the higher the starting rank, by pedigree 3 I wasn't allowed in maiden races at all, even starting out. At most with a cheap bird you'd be racing against a pedigree two with some lucky stats, or better training than yours. Also, you'll stop getting sure wins the higher up you go in pedigree unless you're very practiced, and even then half the time it's RNG. I was racing my ped 4 yesterday and literally 6 races in a row I was in first the whole race, just to get hit by a comet at the end and land in 3-5th. Whereas a cheap bird in maiden is super easy.

Honestly, I think if even with the races being fairly balanced people still hate it when they end up with other players, they really should come up with something more to appease people or let them opt out, because it's not fun to win if people get mad at you for it. And maybe some warning that the races only get harder against the AIs, not easier. I know my husband opted to just buy a new cheap bird to do his challenge log each week since maiden is way easy.

[Eorzean_username]

Thanks for the info, again I'm just learning all the choco stuff. I only listed my bird stats for context, I assume most of why I get flattened is because I'm just less experienced and less-optimized (stats, ability selection, etc). I know it's partially in my hands to fix that, but that takes time and research, and there's just so much else I'm still trying to do and catch up on when I login.

It really is more interesting to race against other players, though, which is why I wish I didn't immediately feel penalized when it randomly happens. Although I admit I'd have more fun without the meta of "chocobutt in your face for 2 minutes + Briar spam".

Still, I really don't enjoy flattening predictable AI 20 times per week. But it's a relief to know I can get the CLog chore done in exactly X minutes, and then move on to more important activities. (I feel like there's some kind of disconnect going on in the design here; what I'm typing feels kind of twisted as I re-read it)

[MistyMew]

I think they should focus on making it simply more enjoyable in the first place. To increase its popularity. I tried it when it was released but it didn't hold my interest at all (and I was looking forward to it)!

I give credit to anyone who has taken the time to raise a great bird, I know you really did put the time and thought into it, but tbh if I was gonna lose every time for like 2 months...(which IS the way it would be) I wouldn't wanna race too many times against you either lol, the advantages of a perfect bird are simply too noticeable.

That's not competition, that's a guaranteed slaughter, which is not fun tbh.

I wish they would revamp the controls of the birds and make them far more maneuverable to start with. I found the controls were extremely clunky. Also I would remove completely those ridiculous meteor type abilities that ALWAYS hit you on the last 10% of the race..

Mind you, the time invested players are probably ok with how it is now, which is cool and I dare not interfere with that.

BUT if you want more players to race against, one of the best ways is to make it more appealing so more play, there is a reason it isn't tooooo popular.

If they somehow force players to race against another, then to some people, that guaranteed loss of 99% of their races would simply make them not bother and then there are even less playing (whether that should or shouldn't be the result, its human nature )

I hope they do find a solution for the racers

[Torvald]

I give credit to anyone who has taken the time to raise a great bird, I know you really did put the time and thought into it, but tbh if I was gonna lose every time for like 2 months...(which IS the way it would be) I wouldn't wanna race too many times against you either lol, the advantages of a perfect bird are simply too noticeable.

That's not competition, that's a guaranteed slaughter, which is not fun tbh.

I totally understand, but it's not quite like that. The rating system guarantees that you're not put against chocobos that are too far away in abilities. I race in the 300 rating bracket, and anyone who is in the race against me has already put a lot of time into their birds. When I race against someone, it's never a guaranteed win. And that is what makes it fun.

If you are starting out or leveling a bird, there is already an incentive to race against others, which is the experience point bonus. Unfortunately at max rank, the experience is useless, so it's no benefit. Also if you're only racing for the mgp (challenge log) at any level of bird, you're not interested in the experience either.

PS As a quick tip for anyone who isn't interested in breeding any further, but still wants to win more races, train a new chocobo using only grade 3 food into stamina, endurance, and speed. It will be an initial mgp investment, but you will win consistently in your rating bracket.

[UnaLihzeh]

snip

Yes this. Unless you consistently are racing in "Open", you're not going to be pitted against a bird insanely better than you. The game averages your stars and adds numbers to your rank based on that, and pedigree. If they didn't already account for that I would insist they did, because racing a beginner pedigree 1 versus a beginner pedigree 5 would be ridiculously unbalanced and unfair. D:

And another tip for easy wins - Get the increased stamina passive ability. At lower levels stamina ceases to be a concern in combination with that and good feed training.

[Eorzean_username]

I appreciate the clarifications about how the ranking system works, but I think (due to your personal experience / skill) you may be undervaluing how easily an experienced player can wipe out another player that's not aware of all the quirks and intricacies of the system, even given supposedly balanced birds.


Just off the top of my head (given my limited current understanding of the system), aspects that aren't intuitive but can make or break a race:

• Server-based movement requiring positioning yourself and jumping with an anticipated delay (players will notice 'it's laggy', but not understand that it's laggy in a consistent way)
• Collision detection being active here (but nowhere else in the game), allowing physical bullying
• The relative power or weakness of each stat
• The relative power or weakness of different items and abilities
• The availability and choice of different vendor abilities.
• The quirks and nuances of each item/ability required to understand and use it effectively
• The way AI will behave and respond to different mechanics
• The way Speed, Acceleration, Stamina and Lathering all work, along with % map position, and how to know when to juggle or push these
• The availability and power(?) of using up your available Feedings to boost stats by X total points.

I think that alone can create a large practical gap, even between equally 'geared' players. This probably contributes to a sense of hostility toward other players showing up, if it feels like one player is being absolutely-flattened by the other one.

Also, Chocobo Racing is possibly serving too many different purposes. ie, it's throwing together in a blender players who:

• Just want their CLog done
• Just want a lot of MGP, fast
• Just want to try out a fluffy chocobo mini-game
• Just want to be left alone with peaceful(?) PvE mini-game for relaxation
• Just want to level or build up their bird(s)
• Have done all that and now want to seriously race and compete as an actual game mode

That's a very broad selection of personalities and goals, and could be a recipe for frustration.

I guess my point is that if it's too easy for a newcomer to feel too frustrated, too fast, they are likely to just quit outright, or deduce how to avoid other players, rather than learning and eventually contributing to the pool of racers.