In regards to RDM (Red Mage)

[kamikrazy]

To my understanding this is a frequent topic, so I'll be brief: because of RDM's weird hybrid structure that just can't really translate into the holy trinity system, what about if a RDM is kind of like a "role roulette" when you queue up with it?

Give RDM the ability to switch between a tank/healer/dps "stance" of some kind that makes certain abilities stronger/weaker/different altogether, and when you queue up for a group, it will randomly choose a role that's needed in that group and fill it with a RDM player, who can simply change their mode to fit that role

Just give them less abilities in each category so that they aren't super bloated. The price for playing a RDM will be that they are in "role roulette" when they queue up for groups (unless its a premade group) and they don't have as many options for each role as other classes

This would give them something unique while also fitting in with their "jack of all trades, master of none" idea, as well as give RDM a unique aspect to the game that no other class has, an aspect that fits perfectly with the holy trinity system, as well as improve queue times by adding tanks, healers, and dps when needed to any groups

Anyway, just an idea I had, ciao!

[Belhi]

I don't see that happening. I'm not even sure if the system can do it.

I think the most likely thing we will see if Red Mage is added is a melee dps with support qualities in the way BRD and MCH currently are.

[kamikrazy]

I don't see that happening. I'm not even sure if the system can do it.

I think the most likely thing we will see if Red Mage is added is a melee dps with support qualities in the way BRD and MCH currently are.

I don't see how the system wouldn't be able to do it. It just assigns the needed role in a group to an RDM, and that RDM just presses the corresponding stance ability, which converts whatever primary state of their gear into the stat needed for the role.

IE: Queue up, get healer assigned, press button, converts dex into mind. Tada, instant healer.

Queue up, get assigned as tank, press tank stance button, converts dex into vit. Tada, instant tank.

It really isn't that complicated of an idea. It's already in the game with white mages and cleric stance. All that would need to be implemented is the role assignment, which exists as well in the group finder. It's all there already. And it would come with a fair consequences for playing a class that could do every role: you don't get to pick which role you are going to fill in DF groups. It's picked for you.

[Kazrah]

To my understanding this is a frequent topic, so I'll be brief: because of RDM's weird hybrid structure that just can't really translate into the holy trinity system, what about if a RDM is kind of like a "role roulette" when you queue up with it?

Actually when you think about it, they can fit in on some level as a hybrid no matter what role they're placed as. It's only because they're a hybrid that we can't really pinpoint what role it would be confirmed as, which I think is a good thing.

As a tank, it would still retain that hybrid quality. Special stance that lets it tank with caster gear on, use a mix of spells and melee attacks for threat, maybe a bit more on the support side with some extra self-healing or even group healing.

As a healer, even though it would be the least likely to happen, it could still be doable. Healing via dealing damage could be the unique gimmick it could have, while having some damage spells on the side.

As a caster, melee skills could be the way for it to restore MP while having its spells do the major damage work and Doublecast be the main damage cooldown. For healing, it could either have a couple extra support skills or even an aoe-bloodbath type skill.

As a melee, we have the spellblade alternative, where we have this caster using magic to empower melee skills. Draw the same Doublecast and support stuff as the caster option, and it proves just as viable.

Many possibilities....this to me is what will make red mage fun.

[Cherub]

That'd bring many problems with it. People who don't want to play the stance the game assigns you to, people who have no clue how to play that role. I'd also much rather have 3 different fleshed out Jobs rather than 1 Job who can do it all. Balancing the job would be hell.

[kamikrazy]

That'd bring many problems with it. People who don't want to play the stance the game assigns you to, people who have no clue how to play that role. I'd also much rather have 3 different fleshed out Jobs rather than 1 Job who can do it all. Balancing the job would be hell.

If they don't want to play the role given to them, then they should play a different class. The idea just adds a new gameplay aspect instead of limiting it to what's been done before and repeating that over and over with the classes. If they don't want to play a jack-of-all-trades class, then they shouldn't pick a jack-of-all-trades class. That doesn't make any sense as an argument against it. "Motorcycles shouldn't exist because people may want to drive cars instead."

And balancing it wouldn't really be that difficult, since its exactly the same as using cross-class skills as they exist now. Once again, something that's already in the game and has been proven to work just fine. By having stances that convert their primary stat into what's needed for the role, you can limit the effectiveness of using non-stanced abilities. IE: RDM in tank stance's heals will be weak because the tank stance converts primary stat into vit, which doesn't provide any extra healing. Whereas that same heal would be powerful in healer stance, because in healer stance the primary stat is converted into mind. And on top of that, you could simply make some abilities require that a certain stance be active in order to use said ability.

For example, if you were in DPS stance, you wouldn't be able to use Stoneskin, because Stoneskin requires you to be in tank or healer stance. And if you were in tank stance, you could use Stoneskin I but not Stoneskin II, because Stoneskin II requires healer stance be active.

[Kazrah]

That'd bring many problems with it. People who don't want to play the stance the game assigns you to, people who have no clue how to play that role. I'd also much rather have 3 different fleshed out Jobs rather than 1 Job who can do it all. Balancing the job would be hell.

I definitely agree with this. That being said, I think a role roulette option for Duty Finder would be AMAAAAAAAAZING!! Have an FC group run Duty Finder with a role roulette feature and take wagers on who's tanking. It'll be great!!

[Ametrine]

Two words; Ability bloat.

For RDM to properly function as a hybrid, (tanking this duty and healing the next, for example) they would need an above average amount of skills to cross class to simply function. Otherwise, nothing would work well enough to properly fill any roles.

As a tank, they would be gutted of defensive cooldowns to make room for DPS buffs. As a DPS, they would lose damaging skills for healing boosters. As a healer, they would lose certain heals for enmity skills, etc.

[Ametrine]

It would be a nightmare to balance, as trying to make a RDM function as well as anyone else in said role at any time would make them overpowered monsters everyone would have to play at endgame, or too weak at each role that no one would want to play with them at endgame.

Please, I would much prefer a utility class over the traditional jack of all trades, master of none.

[ADVSS]

It would be a nightmare to balance, as trying to make a RDM function as well as anyone else in said role at any time would make them overpowered monsters everyone would have to play at endgame, or too weak at each role that no one would want to play with them at endgame.

Please, I would much prefer a utility class over the traditional jack of all trades, master of none.

yeah id take that option too really. For this idea, i really would like to suggest think bigger. Rdm is ok to theorize about this, but Freelancer had the cross class system been any good, would have worked perfectly in this case. But we cant have a good cross class system to do that, so there goes that idea it seems. I just wish levelling alternate jobs came with more better rewards than a couple untraited skills necessary to do good dps, or pull mobs off the main tank, or cast an instant res.