I'm the worst player in PvP

[Eorzean_username]

If it's okay, I'd rather ask this here than make an entire new thread (and asking PvP questions in Reddit's Daily Megathread is always met with dead silence):

I learned to PvP as PLD, but the Shatter design has finally made me drop it, because I felt like most of my defensive/CC toolkit was wasted on Ice DPS races, back-capping shenanigans, and teams half-heartedly poking each other from 30y.

I've switched to MNK, but I feel like I've been struggling to use it properly. And I just had a Frontline match where several players took time to point out my total Damage Done in party chat, and laugh heavily about it... so I think I'm doing something really wrong.

I had spent that match (Seal Rock) first being chased halfway around the map by two MCH obsessed with killing me, then took the opportunity after I rez'd at base to cap and guard two tomeliths that all three teams were ignoring while the rest of my team and the enemy teams brawled over the third active tomelith. Once those tomeliths drained, I met back up with my team. So my combat uptime was low that match, but I understand that's still not an excuse for bringing low total damage as DPS.

I tend to get bewildered and freeze up as MNK when a big engagement starts, because I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to be doing. I know I'm supposed to kill things, but I'm not sure how I'm supposed to do that correctly.

• Do I just attack whoever looks vulnerable, or should I be using MNK's toolkit to focus a healer and disable them with Somersault and using PB to spam Silence and One Ilm?
• Or should I just try to overwhelm their healing with a high-damage rotation, instead of that disabling utility rotation of Arm / One Ilm?
• Do I save Axe Kick for disabling physical classes, or use on CD to get GL3 up when engaging? Same for Somersault, save for disabling healers or use on CD for the damage boost?
• Am I supposed to just dive into the big ball of death? I don't want to get myself killed, but if I don't risk doing that, it feels like I spend most of my time watching the fight and waiting for a chance to safely engage, and I know that must not be right. But I've developed this shyness from getting myself killed a lot by diving in.
• A lot of times it feels like what I'm doing is pointless, because the enemy healer(s) is way in the backline. I can't cross to the backline safely without overextending and getting focused and killed out of healing range, but while the healers are still alive all the damage I do to front/mid line enemies just gets healed right back up. Should I just keep pounding my fists against the nearest target anyway?
• Is it okay to roam as MNK (like when I went off to cap and hold those two tomeliths), or do I need to always stay with the party, attacking something?

I was never called out like that as PLD, so I think I'm playing MNK a lot worse, even though I'm trying. I feel bad and I want to do better, so any guidance is appreciated.

[Vaeria]

• Am I supposed to just dive into the big ball of death? I don't want to get myself killed, but if I don't risk doing that, it feels like I spend most of my time watching the fight and waiting for a chance to safely engage, and I know that must not be right. But I've developed this shyness from getting myself killed a lot by diving in.
• A lot of times it feels like what I'm doing is pointless, because the enemy healer(s) is way in the backline. I can't cross to the backline safely without overextending and getting focused and killed out of healing range, but while the healers are still alive all the damage I do to front/mid line enemies just gets healed right back up. Should I just keep pounding my fists against the nearest target anyway?

Read your entire post. The very questions your asking (and every melee worth their salt SHOULD be asking, and on a regular basis) genuinely make me think youre on the road to greatness. They, if nothing else, show you clearly understand what needs TO be done. So I'll just answer from personal experience.


Pretty much 100% of the stuff that happens in pvp is situational. In one instance, it will work beautifully, in another, its the last thing in the world you wanna do. While factoring that in, it really helps to just keep in mind what kind of a pvper you are in general. Are you the cautious type, that plays it safe and smart, gives his healers no cause for worry (least not in the shortrun), and makes surgical, calculated, always-have-an-exit attacks, or are you the balls to the walls gambler type (if I can get in, kill you, and escape with the fires of hell on my ass with 5% hp remaining) whose willing to push it to the very edge? I believe once you can HONESTLY answer that question, everything else should at least start to fall into place.

Its all a learning proccess methinks (been pvping last 12 years and Im still finding out cool tactics and mindgames) so as you work the above out, push aside that 'shyness of death/scolding.' Yeah, to an extent, it is a team sport, but if someone wants to call you out for what they interpet as low dps or a mindless death, at some point, you just gotta turn to em in as dignified a manner as possible and say '...f*k you." So much in pvp is on the spot judgement calls (alot of which you can kinda forecast from trial an error) so just go with your gut tells you.

As far as healers go the top 3 questions that come to my mind are:
1. Is my burst up?
2. Who is the healer?
3. What is the healing job?

Again, only gonna get better with experience. Some healers'll crack soon as you send a fart in their general direction while others'll outheal an atomic bomb (Graci -_-) Theres also team composition to consider (do you have another melee/tank going in deep with you or is it all ranged, in which case youre gonna draw more fire) Against stronger healers, as drg, I love playing 'tug of war' with em by jumping on a ranged dps (the squishiest role in pvp) and seeing just how much mp they're willing to invest in em

Above all else though (no matter the job really) get to know your job inside out. Reflexively, instinctively, with eyes closed and under a waterfall UmmMMMMmmmmM~ etc. Spend 2 hours a day beating on the dummies in wolves den, or the timed ones outside Idylshire and perfect your burst (I mean really LOOK at the actual numbers/ time) Even have duels now so get a friend to get in some live combat.

Lastly, and I speak this particular point with utmost seriousness, always, always, ALWAYS....kill the enemy lalas 1st. Always. Don't care if your house is on fire and your beloved pookie wantsa bootie call like the world is ending,...the lala goes 1st. I CANNOT stress the importance of this singular fact enough.

[Mirch]

it's not easy to be the worst player, that is some dedication

[Astrophysx]

I tend to get bewildered and freeze up as MNK when a big engagement starts, because I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to be doing. I know I'm supposed to kill things, but I'm not sure how I'm supposed to do that correctly.

XD It's okay.

Anyway, PvP (in all modes) is very different from PvE. For a start, you should learn how to BURST. PvE style rotations are okay. But if you really want to kill targets, you have to know how to burst. What bursts do - If coordinated with another DPS, it will 100-to-0 a target almost instantaneously. If you're trying to solo kill a target, a burst will increase your chance of a kill on a target with 50% or less HP.

The Wolf Pups Den Discord (although centered on Feast) is a good resource. I recommend joining and asking questions about bursting with MNK or whatever you want to learn in the "melee questions" channel. Since I'm not too familiar with MNK's burst, I can't tell you how to do it (although I know that Forbidden Chakra and Tornado Kick are definitely used in it). However, there are top tier PvP vets in that Discord that can tell you how. ^_^

UPDATE:
Just some tips for Frontlines:
- Don't attack targets with their healer around... if you don't have your healer around.
- Attack targets that doesn't have their healer around... if you have your healer around (unless you're good at 1v1)
- Don't tunnel vision a target into a trap.
- Always be aware of the objectives... and go after them.
- Always try to get Battle High/Battle Fever.
- Don't attack jobs with push-back abilities at the end of a cliff (MCH, WHM, SCH - they will push you off... and you will die).

Anyway, hope this helps. Good luck!