[3.4 Spoilers] Theory: "Ivalice" and The Ascians

[Eisen-Zorn]

Disclaimer: I am not saying that the Thirteenth World (The Void) is Ivalice from the past Final Fantasy games, but my theory posits that the Thirteenth World may be one big homage to Ivalice if I'm right.






So, I was thinking about what was learned from the Warriors of Darkness when they revealed that the thirteen worlds were being consumed by either Light or Dark, and then I started thinking about how that could possibly tie in to Unukalhai with his mention of a world destroyed by Auracite and the people who abused Aether.

So, if we go back to Final Fantasy Tactics for a moment, we know of the story of the Zodiac Braves (who are mentioned in Hydaelen lore) who used Auracite, or Zodiac Stones, to fight back the Lucavi to save Ivalice. However, as you learned in the second half of the game, the Zodiac Stones were actually catalysts that help form the Lucavi in the material realm. They have to possess a host, and the host is generally the carrier of the Zodiac Stone.

When you compare this to what Unukalhai tells you, you start to notice a lot of similarities between the world Unukalhai comes from and Ivalice of Final Fantasy Tactics. He mentions that he comes from a war torn world that was eventually consumed by darkness and destroyed. I'm guessing that the world he comes from was the thirteenth world that became The Void.

He mentions that the people who destroyed the "war torn world" attempted to use Auracite (Zodiac Stones, maybe?) to control the power of Primals. This may similar to how the Zodiac Braves of Ivalice bolstered their own power with the Zodiac Stones, but were later consumed by the Lucavi. With their power twisted, they turned in to Aether hungry beasts.

Now, as another homage to Ivalice, The Ascians are technically supposed to be "good" according to their legend. They all share their names, so far, with the Scions of Light mentioned in Final Fantasy XII. Who, ironically enough, all share the same Zodiac sign of the Lucavi from Final Fantasy Tactics.

So, here's my theory: I'm thinking that The Ascians might actually be what's left of the "Zodiac Braves" of the Thirteenth World. I'm thinking that The Ascians may have been heroes who, like the Warriors of Darkness, battled the Primals of their world. However, instead of just destroying the Primals over and over again until their world was consumed by Light, they attempted to take their power for themselves without realizing what it was going to do to them.

Then, put that together with the fact that Unukalhai is the name of the Alpha Serpentis constellation commonly associated with Elidibus, and you've got another similar situation between Elidibus and Ivalice. Remember, Elidibus (who can summon Zodiark), seems to act solely on his own without any real influence from the other Ascians. So, like with Final Fantasy Tactics and Final Fantasy XII, he is still a separate variable.

Now, I want to stress again, I am not saying that the Thirteenth World is Ivalice, but I am almost convinced that The Ascians, the stories of what happened between Hydaelen and Zodiark, and the Thirteenth World may possibly be one giant homage to Ivalice.

TL;DR: The Thirteenth World is a homage to Ivalice, and The Ascians were the "Zodiac Braves" who attempted to use the Auracite to combat and take the power of the Primals for themselves. They may be the reason why the Thirteenth World became The Void, and it may also explain why they can summon the Voidsent.

[Rocl]

It might be important to remember that both Lahabrea and Elidibus are said to be "of this world," which likely means they're Source native, so not from the Thirteenth. This matters more for Lahabrea than Elidibus since you put the latter aside.

As for what the Thirteenth world is an homage to, feh feh, still plenty of time to speculate before we get any real answers I bet! With 4.0 rife with rumblings of the Corpse Brigade I'm always eager to retrod Ivalice's familiar plains

[Eisen-Zorn]

It might be important to remember that both Lahabrea and Elidibus are said to be "of this world," which likely means they're Source native, so not from the Thirteenth. This matters more for Lahabrea than Elidibus since you put the latter aside.

As for what the Thirteenth world is an homage to, feh feh, still plenty of time to speculate before we get any real answers I bet! With 4.0 rife with rumblings of the Corpse Brigade I'm always eager to retrod Ivalice's familiar plains

I always assumed that The Ascians themselves were completely ethereal, but that Lahabrea's and Elidibus' bodies were from The Source world. Oh well, I'm still convinced that The Ascians may have something to do with the Zodiac Braves and the Auracite that Unukalhai talked about. The Ascians know a lot about how Primals are summoned, and the "Aether hungry" beasts sounds a lot like The Ascians as well.

[Belhi]

The Zodiac Braves weren't a group but rather individuals that all acted in the same role, kind of like there have been multiple Warriors of Light through history. That said the 'of this world' comment now makes a lot more sense.

[Morningstar1337]

Also, Serpens is not a Zodiac constellation. That is the related by separate Ophiuchus (and whether or not that counts as a Zodiac sign varies). The two are closely associated however, strong enough to not rule out a connection between Unukalhai and Elidibus.

With all that said. I think its a coincidence. The Zodiac weapons don't reference the namesake constellations. Belias and CuChulain seem to be separated (Ones an unseen primal, the other is a voidsent) the name Ultima was already used, and the names of the stars in Zodiacal constellations are only partially used and don't seem to have a thematic connection (Antares was a 1.0 Boss, the other named Diremites are fate bosses or dungeon bosses. Cancer and Acubens are Fate bosses, And Aldebaran was just an AST weapon). Leaving the Ascians as the only clear cut refernce to the Lucavi's Zodiacal origins and even then that's more due to then names going to all the members of a group, retaining the connection instead of being scattered and used for random things.

To make an analogy. You could say that Hraesvelgr, Niddhogg, Ratatoskr and Midgardsomnr are based in Norse Mythology. You can say that Odin was based in Norse mythology, you can say that the Zodiac weapon Ragnarok and the Anima weapons Hvergelmir and Nothung are based on Norse mythology but you can't say they are all connected because of it.

[Cilia]

Correlation does not even imply causation.

Or:

[Enkidoh]

Nice theory, but the development team already stated long ago (formerly found here, but now archived here) that Hydaelyn has no link to Ivalice at all, and that the use of certain names and concepts between the games is simply for fanservice and nothing else (a way of explaining this is Cid - each FF game has a Cid, but no Cid is the same person between FF games, it's a completely different character who simply shares the same name and (usually) a similar occupation):

Q55: There are a lot of names from Ivalice such as Dalmasca, Belias, and Zodiak that have been mentioned, is there some connection between Hydaelyn and Ivalice?

A55: To be absolutely clear, there is no connection between FFXIV’s Hydaelyn and FFXII’s Ivalice. Likewise there is no connection with FFXI’s Vana’diel. Each are their own individual world. Based on this, there are connections between the things that appear in the world, and we’ll be revealing more in the future.

Hence the Ascians taking the names of the Scions of Light from FFXII (except Altima, who of course was an Esper and not a Scion of Light) was just a fond reference to FFXII but not actually directly linking the games together.

Incidentally the whole 'source world plus twelve reflections' idea I'm still taking with a grain of salt because the Ascians have never been trustworthy informants, regularly twisting information or lying outright to suit their own ends, let alone their flunkies (aka Evil!Derplander and his ilk), I'm being very reserved with taking anything they say at face value and nothing but more blatant lies designed to spread confusion and mask their true plans (after all, lets not forget Lahabrea himself kept outright dismissing the Echo as an "irksome anomaly" for a significant length of time). Of course, may I be proven wrong though!

[WhiteArchmage]

They're not saying the thirteenth world IS Ivalice, just that it could be a reference to it. Until we know more about the thirteenth/the void it could go either way or be a FFIII/FFV reference.

I'd like more references to Ivalice in this game, though, and the Ascians having the names of the Scions of Light in direct opposition to the Espers/Lucavi of the Ivalice Alliance is already a big reference to those games.

[Cilia]

The Ascians all being named after the Scions of Light not enough of an Ivalice reference?! Should we just go to Ivalice instead of exploring Hydaelyn?!

Not entirely mock outrage aside, to further poke at this instead of just dismissing it:

If the Ascians were former Warriors of Light Zodiac Braves who succumbed to Auracite's influence and destroyed the Thirteenth Reflection, why do they serve Zodiark, a dead god who cannot provide them with aether? How would they first commune with a dead god and learn what His will was? Moreover aren't the Zodiac Braves a legend passed down in Thavnair, whose trials we mocked up for our Zodiac Animus weapons and Hoary Boulder and Coultenet actually took while hiding there? If that's the case, how would the apocalyptic events of the Thirteenth Reflection become a legend in Thavnair?!

Their connection with the void is easily explained by the fact the void is the dark-drowned Thirteenth Reflection, and one of Zodiark's domains is darkness. Ergo, while they do not like the state the Thirteenth Reflection has fallen into, they can and will make use of it.

From what we've hammered out in another topic, the void the Thirteenth became and the Void are separate things. There was just confusion and conflation because the "v" is always capitalized in titles, but never dialogue; as such it can be reasonably concluded that the void (Thirteenth) and Void (Interdimensional Rift) are not one and the same.