Matchmaking without the Trinity: how would you do it?

[Hestern_Nestern]

How would I do it... {Hmmm.}

I've had some thoughts on the matter, recently. Well, for starters, I enjoy the trinity system. However, I think it would be cool if each job had a secondary role they could queue for. Bards could queue dps or healer, summoners can queue dps, or tank (I say tank because the oft neglected Titan-Egi), and so on. In their secondary role, their trait window would change to accommodate that role's needs. Mayhap the trait, A Song Of Fire, causes flaming arrow to take on an asylum-like effect, for example. Bard's would also need some kind of healing-over-time song, and perhaps the Warden's Paean shifts into an at-will esuna, with the added bonus of blocking the next effect as well. Perhaps, also, bard would lose one class' crossclass skills, and have crossclass skills from CNJ added to the mix. Just some ideas. Now for a list to sum up what I am trying to say:

1) every job is given a secondary role they can switch to (outside of battle in the open-world, not at all in instances)
2) the classes they can take crossclass skills from change, or at least one of them does
3) a separate trait window for the secondary role handles modification of existing abilities to better fit that role's needs
4) they can only queue as one of the roles at a time, thus keeping to the trinity, while adding role options
5) new abilities could be introduced for the secondary role, maybe, though my preference is modifying current spells, skills, and abilities

for some added fun:

Summoners, when tanking, need a holmgang/hallowed ground/living dead. This is what I came up with:

Summoner's secondary role trait window gains the trait, "Earthly Tether" on Tri-Bind. Using what we now know as Tri-Bind, on their titan-egi, Tri-Bind splits the summoner and the egi's hp between them, while making it so that neither one of them can die while the other yet lives, and that healing abilities on the egi also heal the summoner, and healing abilities on the summoner also heal the egi.

Obviously, each primary role skill would have to be closely looked at and balanced for the secondary role, to keep any job from being too powerful as a secondary role. I thought maybe they could implement the secondary role system for dungeons and such at first, then move on to allowing EX primals and 24-man raids/8-man raids afterward, once all things have been properly adjusted for smaller stuff.

[Lewtskie]

How would I do it... {Hmmm.}

I've had some thoughts on the matter, recently. Well, for starters, I enjoy the trinity system. However, I think it would be cool if each job had a secondary role they could queue for.

Yeah,my issue isn't nearly with the Trinity itself, more how restricted it currently is; I'd love to see every job be capable of a secondary role. There was another thread that suggested every class has an alternate weapon, and I think this could be best to fit alternate roles.

Taking a cue from ESO, these weapons can be switched on the fly and each utilize their own kits. This would pretty much be able to replace stances, and may also help alleviate ability bloat. They'd all maintain their original roles for the sake of party queues, but being able to change up composition and take over as needed would improve combat dynamics.

I'd love to see a Scythe for DRK and maybe Dual Axes for WAR, making them DPS. PLD could side as a healer with maybe a Great Hammer or Holy Maul.

NIN and DRG I'd see alt as Tanks maybe, maybe even MCH (gobbie mechs anyone?). MNK and BRD seem most likely as Healers.

For hilarity I'd love to see WHM take charge as a Tank, lol.

[Hestern_Nestern]

There was another thread that suggested every class has an alternate weapon, and I think this could be best to fit alternate roles.

Actually, this sounds like an excellent way to switch between roles! Good on you. I agree with the scythe for DRK, and dual axes sounds cool for WAR. Personally Great Hammer or Holy Maul is a little boring to me for PLD, but it also makes the most sense.

I thought maybe monk could tank, but I can see where they might be open to healing, mantras, meditation, and all that jazz. Dragoon and Ninja as tank...well, ninja would be all evasion all the time, which worked in XI (even when it wasn't supposed to). As far as dragoon, that feels a bit odd to me, but healer feels even odder, so I'd say you made the right call. Yes, I agree, bard would make a fun off-healer support, like in XI.

Ah, yes, WHM would be hilarious as a tank...and also badass! I like it. What do you think WHM's second role weapon would be? A mace?

[Lewtskie]

Dragoon and Ninja as tank...well, ninja would be all evasion all the time, which worked in XI (even when it wasn't supposed to). As far as dragoon, that feels a bit odd to me, but healer feels even odder, so I'd say you made the right call. Yes, I agree, bard would make a fun off-healer support, like in XI.

Ah, yes, WHM would be hilarious as a tank...and also badass! I like it. What do you think WHM's second role weapon would be? A mace?

Honestly, I pinned NIN as Tank purely from experience in XI, lol. DRG I figured made sense as they already wear most heavy-style gear as tanks do, and for whatever reason have a natural parry buff. Also, DRG Tanking something other than the floor can't be all too terrible. :V

WHM I'm thinking back to XI again, just whipping out that healer plate mail and Kraken Club!

[Rhaja]

Actually, this sounds like an excellent way to switch between roles! Good on you. I agree with the scythe for DRK, and dual axes sounds cool for WAR. Personally Great Hammer or Holy Maul is a little boring to me for PLD, but it also makes the most sense.

I thought maybe monk could tank, but I can see where they might be open to healing, mantras, meditation, and all that jazz. Dragoon and Ninja as tank...well, ninja would be all evasion all the time, which worked in XI (even when it wasn't supposed to). As far as dragoon, that feels a bit odd to me, but healer feels even odder, so I'd say you made the right call. Yes, I agree, bard would make a fun off-healer support, like in XI.

Ah, yes, WHM would be hilarious as a tank...and also badass! I like it. What do you think WHM's second role weapon would be? A mace?

B-but MNK tank ;__;.

[Dreamsoap]

B-but MNK tank ;__;.

Monk tank needs to happen!

[Chiramu]

Monk tank needs to happen!

There is a monk tank in WoW . In the single player FF games there never was a real holy trinity system. Steiner was in heavy armour(chose Steiner because he looks like a tank in "traditional MMOs) but he was my strongest damage dealer. They didn't "have" to make FFXIV into the trinity system :/.

[basketofseals]

There is a monk tank in WoW . In the single player FF games there never was a real holy trinity system. Steiner was in heavy armour(chose Steiner because he looks like a tank in "traditional MMOs) but he was my strongest damage dealer. They didn't "have" to make FFXIV into the trinity system :/.

Do you not realize the inherent flaw with comparing a single player RPG to an MMORPG?

[Welsper59]

There is a monk tank in WoW . In the single player FF games there never was a real holy trinity system. Steiner was in heavy armour(chose Steiner because he looks like a tank in "traditional MMOs) but he was my strongest damage dealer. They didn't "have" to make FFXIV into the trinity system :/.

MNK in XI was sometimes treated as that backup tank. They did perfectly fine (if not outright OP) tanking for endgame merit parties. Sometimes you could even use them as an OT, depending how dangerous adds were. Perfect example of that would have been Vrtra.

Ahh the good ol' days, as far as how devs "defined" their classes/jobs. It had a lot of downsides to it, but the good was REALLY good. 30+ LS members fighting together, each party and alliance with specific roles, always meant that everyone* was invited to help out.

* = assuming there were no actual requirements to do it as a specific role/job

[myahele]

For hilarity I'd love to see WHM take charge as a Tank, lol.

I did this a while back for fun, but as a CNJ. Since many tank cross class abilities can be used, it was a fun experience and *kinda* viable but used up lot of MP to keep self alive and emnity