Matchmaking without the Trinity: how would you do it?

[Connor]

They could always do this:

Instance Server: Hey Duty Finder! I got an opening, find me some victims, I mean players.
Duty Finder: On It!
Duty Finder: Let's see, I need a tank, ooh, I see one! Snagged!
Duty Finder: I need a healer, I see three of those, picking the one who has waited the longest.
Duty Finder: Manual says I need 2 DP, jumping Jehosaphat! How do I pick just 2? Screw it, taking 2 at random, they'll never know the difference.
Duty Finder: I need a Support, whatever that is. Support? Support? Hell with it, have a DPS instead.
Duty Finder: Take them away Instance Server, I need to look up what a support job is.

It could default to 1-1-2-1, if it cannot find a support after a period of time it changes to 1-1-3 instead. Would make DPS happy since the population is about 1-1-3 anyway.

This is always how I imagined a 'support' role to work too. I think this way perfectly allows a 'support' role whilst not creating massive queues

[Welsper59]

snip

Believe me when I say I'm with you in wanting an actual support role job. That was the primary reason I leveled BRD here (I was one of those BRDs in XI that I mentioned). I also share the same criticisms about the devs not being able to properly introduce the concept. You've already pointed out the BRD/MCH aspect, but also consider how they treated AST upon release. Gimping it just like they did BRD/MCH, seemingly under the premise that the RNG cards are so powerful that it warrants subpar primary role output. Clearly, they were wrong on the potency of these jobs' support effects leveling things out with all the buffs that followed.

I don't have faith in the devs actually gauging proper mechanics to such a role, given this games history, but that's why I do think they can start with the DPS aspect. A job that is still DPS, but has a focus on party output, rather than individual, which is something ALL roles and jobs are focused on.

For example, maybe it'd have reduced output like BRD/MCH by design, so an acceptable amount of DPS by itself. The party functionality however involves using an ability that sacrifices self output, for increasing a targeted party members output (not an aura, but a direct link). Say it reduces your output by 20%, but it increases a party members by 25%. Or if that's too potent, then 20% reduction on you but 15% increase with one party member. You can distribute that link to multiple members though, increasing overall output while you take greater hits to personal DPS for each additional link. 1 link - 20%, 2 links - 30%, 3 links - 40%, and so on while that bonus to party members remains constant (e.g. 15% increased output on each link).

THEN we can gauge interest properly on the idea of people helping the team, rather than focusing on themselves. I mean, think about how often BRDs/MCHs may not use buffs/debuffs or how often healers in pugs don't actually heal because they rely on the other healer to do it for them.

[Connor]

I don't have faith in the devs actually gauging proper mechanics to such a role, given this games history, but that's why I do think they can start with the DPS aspect. A job that is still DPS, but has a focus on party output, rather than individual, which is something ALL roles and jobs are focused on.

For example, maybe it'd have reduced output like BRD/MCH by design, so an acceptable amount of DPS by itself. The party functionality however involves using an ability that sacrifices self output, for increasing a targeted party members output (not an aura, but a direct link). Say it reduces your output by 20%, but it increases a party members by 25%. Or if that's too potent, then 20% reduction on you but 15% increase with one party member. You can distribute that link to multiple members though, increasing overall output while you take greater hits to personal DPS for each additional link. 1 link - 20%, 2 links - 30%, 3 links - 40%, and so on while that bonus to party members remains constant (e.g. 15% increased output on each link).

THEN we can gauge interest properly on the idea of people helping the team, rather than focusing on themselves. I mean, think about how often BRDs/MCHs may not use buffs/debuffs or how often healers in pugs don't actually heal because they rely on the other healer to do it for them.

Yeah, I've mentioned before in another thread but I think jobs with mechanics like this would go a long way in encouraging more team play as well. They could even simplify it by having a dps job with support abilities that are on the GCD with a base MP cost like Brave (increase physical attack), Faith (increase magical attack), Barrier (increase defense), rather than just the standard 'support aura'. They would still have access to direct damage abilities but would be able to sacrifice personal dps to increase everyone elses. The buffs could be short duration so their dps doesn't become too high. I think a job like this would be a great way to implement a support job in a way that fits well into the dps role whilst still having a support mechanic that's interesting and engaging, requiring awareness of the battle situation. It would also facilitate team work since buffs are multiplicative, so communicating with team members about stuff like when you're popping personal buffs, when a dps check is coming up, etc, would become much more important

[Lisotte]

You don't.

[SaitoHikari]

(snip)

To add to this, when Dragon Nest reshuffled all of the classes into a trinity system, they actually mentioned having a fourth 'Support' category as well.

If a Support category exists, it's not obvious which classes are actually in there. We still argue whether or not the devs still consider the Support class category a real thing, or if they've abandoned the category. (While they admitted that class composition in raids should adhere to a trinity system, they still leave it up to the player to figure out which classes go where. And it's very, very obvious who the tanks and healers are, while all of the DPS are just everywhere else.)