Alexander 12N Tuning

[Deceptus]

1 shotted A9
1 shotted entire party blind A10
2 shotted A11
Took about 9 attempts through 2 groups for A12 because the fight demands competent healers.

One of the 4 stood out a lot for me, and you see no-one claiming the first two should be made harder. It's only when you ask something be made easier do people get this upset.

That was about my experience as well. Like I said in the beginning, the difficulty spike in A12 was pretty shocking.

I didn't even think about the B4B issue, that was probably causing some extra damage across the board via consistent raid damage. I do not envy you as a MCH with no self heal.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

That was about my experience as well. Like I said in the beginning, the difficulty spike in A12 was pretty shocking.

Mine was 1 shot A9
4 attempts on A10
3 attempts on A11
5 attempts on A12

I think the difficulty is fine, its just knowing how to move for the aoes and having healers who can heal. The mechanics werent even that hard to figure out, it was just figuring them out with PUGs.

[Atoli]

2nd party, 2nd try on A9 (because on the first one, DMG was just abysmal and adds never died)
1st party, second try on A10 (this is definitely the simplest out of all the new turns)
1st party, mh..7th? or something try on A11 (since we went in completely blind it took a while to figure out some concepts)
Have yet to clear A12 because most parties don't even make it below 70% HP before disbanding. Furthest I got with one party was like..47% or something.

This is frustrating. I only have today left to get my loot, and while I believe I may clear it tonight (through pf instead of df, if necessary!), if I don't roll high enough on the loot I need, I'll have to FARM a fight that barely any random party even clears..x_X
It may be because we are still really low in item level, but right now, the difficulty feels a bit too much for a story mode.

[Vaer]

A12N is not that bad. Alexander waits like 2-3 full GCDs before using another Mega Holy/Tank Buster. Both healers just need to use one of those GCDs for an AOE heal and prep for the TB. Sometimes he'll do a Holy and a TB afterwards but that's why there are two healers and tanks just have to use mitigation. Almost everything he does has a cast bar.

I've seen the so called DPS check end halfway through the given time at current gear levels. There's a bar under the duty list that shows the length of time you have to deal with the 4 dps quarantine.

2 people with full health can survive the green triangle+stack mechanic when you are supposed to stack with 4. If you are in the stack with the triangle you get blown up but that's a pretty easy mechanic to deal with and most people I see react to an arrow on the head by running away. It's literally a gimped megaflare from T13.

The tethers are pretty obvious after you see it once and show up pretty early too even at the tail end of the fight. They've used similar mechanics tons of times in 24 mans.

The sacrament beam is just a cardinal direction beam based on his positioning and even if you are really far away all you have to do is strafe from him/stand in between two of the triangles.

After the time stop there is a bit of time to top people off while dodging Sacrament using instant heals if you think someone is about to die.

It's pretty forgiving.

Healers can carry the entire fight.

Once people get more HP from gear it will be just like all the others.

The Optical Sight bomb pattern + Propeller Wind combo is more of a pain than anything in A12N.

[ByzantiumKing]

The Optical Sight bomb pattern + Propeller Wind combo is more of a pain than anything in A12N.

this. as a healer it took like 15 runs to get through this because people just couldn't stay alive and there is nothing I can do about it. A12 gives the healer far more time, and the mechanics are nowhere near as tough

[vanitaslaughing]

Nidhogg did get Echo, as much as every Primal-tier Trial - iirc Nabriales and SoF don't have Echo.

SoF got nerfed because it gated an entire expansion behind it. That's it. I cleared the darn trial on release day, after 3 hours of constant wiping, I was crushing my Dualshock and grinding my teeth while my sister on the other couch had her hands curled into fists during the clear. To this day my heart rate increases when Vishap gets to the last part of the bridge and the music changes, but that might just be me. It was brutal. I had some DF dude chew me out for being geared like a (back then) casual, they straight up pointed at me after I messed up a mechanic I didn't know (it was release day, the patch had been live for what, 2 hours?, and I wasn't the only one mucking about because the mechs were unknown to most of us and Mr Dreadwyrm DRG didn't explain). They declared me a scourge on this game and that I shouldn't come back until I had beaten and farmed FCoB, so I would be properly geared. I was in perfectly casual-style gear, a full WoD left side other than the body, mostly Ironworks accessories and the body, and the upgraded soldiery bow. Around Ilevel 119, the minimum requirement for that trial was and still is 90. SoF NEEDED that nerf. Maybe not as intense as they eventually did, but it certainly needed downtuning (and admittedly, I still groan when I get it on trial roul).

Alexander is, by any means, side story content. You're not required to do the thing. You want to, but just keep in mind...It's release week. It literally is release week. I didn't get a party that cleared A1 (!) on DF long after release until the very night after which I needed to take a break for about a month becausemy sub ran out and I was overseas for a trip. Midas on release week, I dragged my feet because I'm not a fan of weekly tokens. Weekly caps are okay but tokens, ew. But anyway, eventually my friend lasso'd me and took me through most of it in one sitting. We wiped BILLIONS of times against the robo bros, and we nearly met hard enrage against Vortexer because three dragoons is all fun and games but the 4th dps was gone and we were all average on 200-205ish back then. It was hilarious, because no one yet fully knew what to do, so people died to inane stuff like Single Dril, Height Errors, or by standing too long in a mud puddle.

Creator just released. Of course people will die to inane things. I died because I forgot about hiding behind a meteor. I died because I got myself impaled on ice needles one too many times and got crushed by spiky balls at least four times before I realised when and where they would drop. I've died a dozen times due to getting stuck on something, or being way too slow (good old 'I can get this cast off before I gotta move!'). I've gotten completely compromised by nearly every attack, I've gotten tankbusted even. Astrologians don't make good tanks, spoiler alert. I've seen the same happen to other people, but people learn and you can really see that. It's fun to see groups improve and I'd never abandon a group that's making visible progress. Actually, I've onla abandoned twice in there out of the 7 times I've been in; once because someone got impatient and left, and the second time because we weren't meeting the DPS check, and it was 1am and I needed to be up early.

Good, all right, I'm not what you'd consider "casual" in this game. Hell, I've been in Midas Savage - as a melee DPS, mind, and never further than Vortexer. So while I'm used to healing dungeons and the like, I'm not completely used to healing in heavy damage environments. But see, that 1am abandoning run. Eventually the WHM I had been paired with flipped on Cleric Stance for the first and the adds phases. That was the ultimate compliment I could've received in there; they trusted me to keep the show going and they could squeeze out some more numbers for our low average.
Now, on the other hand, my friend who was new in there and can still be considered pretty casual; she was having a blast. She took her time learning everything, and she's been to a hard enrage now, so she theoretically knows the entire fight. After about 20 minutes.

That's not... hurling yourself against content for hours and hours on end. You just need to be patient. Patient, or have as stupid luck as my friend and WAR of choice; we downed that thing when its Enrage countdown was below 1. It was starting the animation for the Enrage Wipe, but it died. I screamed into Discord and clapped my hands so hard they went numb and then just started laughing loudly. That was the most fun I had in ages.
Literally everyone I talk to, from casual to hardcore, says the fights are fun. They don't need a nerf, or even too much fo an adjustment.

[HungryHippo]

Dont blame the story mode, blame the players.

[Werhusky]

All those cries for nerfs make me very sad. You want to know my reasons?
If they nerf the fight noone can experience it's original beauty anymore...
It happened to SoF that was turned into faceroll content from something that required some callouts ("snares up") - I beat it on day one with few friends in 3-4 pulls. We helped a lot people through afterwards and 50% of the df groups could beat it if people didn't rq after one pull. The only thing they should have changed imho is a way to wipe it faster.
The nerfs in T7 and A3S destroyed a lot of fun. Saying that you can consider me hardcore but my playstyle in progression is midcore at best. But I like a challenge here and there.
I can understand the nerf on SoF as it is part of the story as they back then nerfed Mog HM, still they overdid there... that they nerf raidconent until it's dead shall be another topic.
Alex NM is a baby raid and that includes the word raid. So a bit of a challenge should be left shouldn't it?

[Fawkes]

I've cleared A12 at least 13 times now trying to get that darn shaft, and it hasn't been too difficult. The only problems are from people still learning the fight. Once everyone can dodge Sacrament and Gravitational Anomaly, or properly stack for things, it should be pretty easy.

Also keep in mind that everyone's ilvl is going to go up from new tome gear and gear from other Creator tiers, so it's basically already in the process of being nerfed by that.

[HyoMinPark]

Please don't nerf A12N. I like it how it is.

I do not raid. I am a super casual player (like I have done 2 of the HW EX primals--Ravana and Sophia--because I'm just too lazy to do the others atm, or I end up going on a crafting/gathering spree for 3-4 weeks rather than trying to clear EX primals). I did Gordias like once or twice all the way through, and really only focused on A1 and A2 back when I needed precision items for my anima. I found Creator to be not that difficult when I got my clears--went in on DRK and OT'd most of it, even though I had to MT A9 because my friend was having latency issues (he was MT on his PLD).

I have OT'd and MT'd A12N. It is not that difficult, and there was only one time I actually panicked and popped Living Dead, but that was more from the healer hard-cast raising the other healer, who had died to people stacking on him when they shouldn't have (prey marker). As long as you follow the mechanics (which I didn't find to be that hard, and they essentially just repeat themselves as the fight progresses), it's relatively simple. I am only ilvl 233, and only partially melded, and I welcomed Creator. I thought it was fun, and I look forward to tanking it again.