Scaling of abilities to a player's level is not a step in the right direction.

[MugenMugetsu]

So I've heard/read that SE is planning to eliminate tiered abilities and instead have one spell/ability that becomes more powerful as a character becomes higher level. This simply will not work.

This is going to put players in a position where hate control is going to become a huge issue. As a level 50 Conjurer this tells me that I will have 1 Cure spell, for example, that becomes more powerful as I level. This is all well and good until you consider the fact that if I want to drop a Cure I or Cure II on the tank or DD that needs said Cure, and hate has not been well established, I'm going to have only one, what I assume to be tier III powered Cure, available to me to use to cure the tank/dd.

If hate has not been well established this is going to cause me to become the mob's primary target as the enmity generated from the tier III powered Cure spell I used is going to cause the mob to see me as a threat.

This works the same way with attack magic. If I want to DD as Con, rather than dropping tier III spells before hate has been well established I will no longer have the option of being able to use a tier 1 or tier 2 level attack magic spell. This again will generate enmity that could very well cause me to pull the mob off of the tank and put me at risk of being an mp sponge.

I, for one, am none too please with SE's or Yoshi P's decision to go in this direction as I enjoy playing strategically and being able to use the different tiered spells I have available to me not only just to make sure I don't generate too much enmity and pull hate off the tank, but also because the use of lowered tiered spells in instances where they would be suitable conserves mp.

I would much prefer to have the option of using a lowered tiered spell to save mp and make sure that I am not generating too much enmity than have only one spell/ability that has been scaled to my level as far as it's potency is concerned.

It is probably already too late for my concerns to make a difference but I did want to start this thread to see if there are any other players out there who share the same concern that I have with tiered spells being eliminated.

I could go on and on in regards to the problems with this new system that is to be implemented, but I think I have made my point. In closing, SE please think before you take action and change a perfectly good system into what you "think" will be more suitable. These types of changes should absolutely have to be rigorously tested in various situations including xp parties, instanced dungeons, and fights such as the Ifrit battle before they are ever considered for actual placement and use in game. I'm going to be none to pleased when I'm being eaten by mobs because I dropped a "Cure" on a tank/DD and it causes me to draw hate because my spell was scaled to my level and the potency caused the mob to see me as a threat. Also, and I know I have already mentioned this, this is going to cause a lot of trouble for us mages when it comes to conserving mp.

Share your feedback. Maybe my opinion is not necessarily correct and everything will work out beautifully, but I highly doubt it will, unless we are given the option to choose the potency of the 1 spell available for us to use which has been scaled to be as potent as it should be at a player's level.

[Forbin]

/signed with 10 chars
R50 CON

[Estellios]

Wait till we get more info on the combo system, there is probably a combo that lowers the enmity from Curing by a lot (If that +50% enmity example is any indication), and they were already going to adjust the enmity from it on top of that. If hate hasn't been established yet, just don't nuke. The Curing issue is a more valid one, but pretty sure that has been taken into account because of the feedback of Cure enmity.

[Kopuno]

Personally, I like to make sure my Tank stays capped off as much as possible. So in situations where I only need a Cure I, I'm going to have to waste a ton more MP. I see issue's with this situation.

[Cycloptichorn]

Hmm.

If your tank doesn't have hate established in a tough fight, isn't it appropriate that the mob will go after healers? Let us consider - in games in which you fight a group of enemies, and one of them is constantly healing the other ones, which one do YOU try and kill first?

The healers - no question. I don't see why the mobs should act any differently. It's realistic that way. As a tank I would rather see a setup or situation where it really matters if I know how to do my job or not.

[Jinko]

You really think that they will change the way Cure works and not take into account the amount of hate it generates, its called balancing and if its not ammended before 1.20 it will be afterwards, the devs aren't stupid.

It's not just Con skills that are being changed the way provoke works could be changed and many other things which will effect the way enmity is generated.

Sit down, calm down and be patient.

Fact is if at end game Con/WHM (whatever you want to call it) pulls too much hate then the dev team will just have to address it, I'm sure they have tested it enough though not to release the patch with such a glaring problem in effect.

[TinnySnips]

We don't even know what the 15 conjurer abilities will be. We don't know what the combos available to conjurer will be. We do know that CON will be the main healer, and it seems that people are making the assumption that the developers will give only 1 single-target healing spell... I know it's SE, but give them a little credit. Other MMOs seem to give their healers different types (not tiers) of cure spells, I imagine we will be getting something similar.

As for liking to play strategically, I would think that you should be pleased that the devs are getting rid of tiered spells. Having healing spells with a variety of strengths offers little opportunity for strategic gameplay when compared to having healing spells with a variety of effects. I know that I am engaging in speculation when I imagine a skillset with spells of varying effect, but other MMOs do it, and Yoshi-P is an MMO player, so I imagine that he would draw on his experiences to guide the developers in that direction. Seriously, tiered cures are boring anyway. I'd rather have 1 normal heal spell, 1 weaker heal spell that is instant cast, 1 multi-target heal spell, and a spell that temporarily increases the target's max HP... wouldn't you (once again, I'm speculating, but so are the people that imagine a skillset with only 1 single-target cure spell, and I think that my speculation is much more realistic)? Plus, as at least one other person has mentioned, imagine the combos that may be possible. All of this applies to magic DDs as well. It is possible to have a skillset that offers a variety of damage+effect spells and pure damage spells.

Tiers do not offer depth, which battle in this game is currently lacking (particularly for healers). People fear changing their playstyles, and they fear the influence of other MMOs, but there's really no need. There are good things out there, that when sampled, customized, and adapted to this game will pull it out of the pit it is currently attempting to leave. Could we stop being so close-minded about changes? We voted for drastic change, so drastic change we will get. Drastic change is what this game needs. Drastic change is already working (though, it has just begun). Please have a little faith and stop assuming that the developers never considered something as basic as MP and Enmity management when they planned these changes.

[Tibian]

Personally, I like to make sure my Tank stays capped off as much as possible. So in situations where I only need a Cure I, I'm going to have to waste a ton more MP. I see issue's with this situation.

That is because you're looking at healing from a one spell restoration move: Cure. There are (most likely, or at least SHOULD be) going to be other restorative abilities to use. Healing with one/two (Cure/Sac) spells is boring. Other MMORPG's have at least four to seven healing spells that do different properties for different situations.

I was a big proponent of downranking spells in other MMO's. However after seeing how the automatic ranking works in other games, I can tell you it is a much more efficient and appropriate mechanism for keeping things on the same page as far as balance goes.

The concern about keeping tanks topped off is valid, but I wouldn't worry about it unless we're still going to be limited to Cure 3/Sac 3. Wait for new spells/abilities/traits to appear before you start calling in the doom hammer.

[Quatre]

That's really cool. Because really intricate strategy involves me casting the SAME SPELL with a different tier.



You know what I rather do?


I rather cast Cure when heals aren't demanding right this moment and can conserve MP

Or, When someone is desperately wounded and needs a cure quick, I would use my High-cost, fast cast Cura spell.

Or when I need to cast a Long spell that cost a lot and heals for a lot ( For when i KNOW the tank is going to be taking a lot of damage, and this will be the most efficient way to heal them ) I.E. CURAJA.



Would you rather play a game where your healing is dependant on the time it takes you to cast the spell, the amount of mana it consumes, and several other Variables? I like this a LOT better than simply using the SAME spell that heals for a little less and costs a little less. It's far less strategic.


(This can be applied to the Black Mage spells also, However I personally feel that the black mage spells don't need it. I think a chaining system in which you chain The elemental weakness/ affinities would be just as fine)


This also opens the doors for abilities like Regen, Reflect, Bravery, Faith, etc. etc. Although I doubt White mage would get many buffs beyond Regen and maybe Reflect.

[Jinko]

This also opens the doors for abilities like Regen, Reflect, Bravery, Faith, etc. etc. Although I doubt White mage would get many buffs beyond Regen and maybe Reflect.

Well lets not get carried away here, we only get 15 spells from 1-50 now.