Scaling of abilities to a player's level is not a step in the right direction.

[zaviermhigo]

Ahh thanks for the clarification Inaaca, when I read things I do not retain all the information, and no matter how many times I read it some things just slip out. With current level of class i'd like to see a chart with an example of the scaling, enmity is still what I'm worried about. Taking about the choice to choose between the tiers is...frightening is certain situations. Think about the ogre in darkhold, when everyone's just casting cure II, because cure III is ridiculous amounts of hate. Now with the enmity minus on the belt, its better, maybe we'll have to stack more enmity minus gear. It will define who's who again, as some people simply refuse to think managing hate is also partly their job. Idk, right now I think i'm still in shock, I'm starting to get more worried as time goes by.

[Inaaca]

Ahh thanks for the clarification Inaaca, when I read things I do not retain all the information, and no matter how many times I read it some things just slip out. With current level of class i'd like to see a chart with an example of the scaling, enmity is still what I'm worried about. Taking about the choice to choose between the tiers is...frightening is certain situations. Think about the ogre in darkhold, when everyone's just casting cure II, because cure III is ridiculous amounts of hate. Now with the enmity minus on the belt, its better, maybe we'll have to stack more enmity minus gear. It will define who's who again, as some people simply refuse to think managing hate is also partly their job. Idk, right now I think i'm still in shock, I'm starting to get more worried as time goes by.

No problem, it happens to the best of us.

I'm thinking that there may be abilities or combos to help with things like enmity. For instance, right now Conjurers have Soughspeak to lower a spell's potency and enmity generation. Using that with Cure II would technically simulate a lower tier Cure, and the same kind of thing could apply to scaleable spells.

[Buddhsie]

Ahh thanks for the clarification Inaaca, when I read things I do not retain all the information, and no matter how many times I read it some things just slip out. With current level of class i'd like to see a chart with an example of the scaling, enmity is still what I'm worried about. Taking about the choice to choose between the tiers is...frightening is certain situations. Think about the ogre in darkhold, when everyone's just casting cure II, because cure III is ridiculous amounts of hate. Now with the enmity minus on the belt, its better, maybe we'll have to stack more enmity minus gear. It will define who's who again, as some people simply refuse to think managing hate is also partly their job. Idk, right now I think i'm still in shock, I'm starting to get more worried as time goes by.

It's common knowledge that 1 HP cured and 1 dmg dealt are worth 1 enmity point. It's a shame you've been worrying about things that aren't even true this entire time.

Let's take a metaphorical 10 second time period within a fight with the current system of tiered abilities; you have a healer, a damage dealer and a tank.

The tank takes constant damage, and over the 10 second period the healer casts Cure II 3 times, for a total of 1200 HP healed. (Thus a base total of 1200 enmity points).
The tank does 300 damage and uses abilities with a total enmity value of 1000 (there's a chart online somewhere with all the values, it's been well tested). (Total of 1300 enmity points).
The damage dealer hits for 1200 damage and has a minor ability enmity value of 75. (All abilities incur at least a little bit of enmity). (Total 1275 enmity points).

At the end of the 10 seconds the healer has generated 1200, the tank 1300 and the damage dealer 1275. This is of course subject to change from the gear and traits set for enmity by the members of the party. It's pretty easy to calculate who has gained the most enmity from the 10 second period.

Now, after patch 1.20; consider the same situation, only now Cure II is replaced by a scaled Cure (let's assume that Cure now is about the same as Cure III at 50).
The only thing that changes now is that over the 10 seconds, all the healer has to do is wait and cast Cure at the point at which it will heal the most possible HP (towards the end of the 10 second period). All other classes' actions have not changed. The healer will incur 1000 enmity points from a 1000 HP healed cure, in the same period of time. This of course frees up time from the healer to buff, debuff, pick their nose, whatever they do when they aren't healing.

This promotes a new playstile parallel to the playstile healers use now, NOT a downgrade, NOT a hate deathtrap, NOT a restricted ability to cure effectively. The fact that people believe that just because a spell is called Cure III means that it gives soo much more hate than a spell Cure II is utterly ridiculous, and it's hard to believe that these people are the ones responsible for keeping others alive. To me, the fact that you can spread out little cures over a time period instead of casting a bigger (and usually more MP effective) heal after that period of time is a stupid way to play a class, just because it feels like you aren't generating enmity.

I really hope people can put this issue to bed, all this non-tiered system will bring is a new way to play your class, and people will have to adapt.

My sincere admiration goes out to tanks everywhere, for managing to complete content being kept alive by people who think this way.

[mhaid2000]

Now i gotta agree with OP on this one. This is a really stupid idea and it is totally un-FF like. FF has always had tiered spells even since the very first game. By taking out the tiered spells, youre taking away from the FF feel this game has. Yoshi-P, im asking that you please reconsider this decision cause its gonna cause alot of problems in the game in the future.

[Jigg]

Maybe a compromise with us? Remove tiered weapon skills, but leave spells tiered? I honestly do replace lower tier ws with their higher versions. Spells are a different beast all together and shouldn't be treated the same.

[Zezlar]

I don't mind tiered abilities/weapon skills being taken away but spells should be left alone. They still need to fix the damn animations.

[Holland]

It is probably already too late for my concerns to make a difference but I did want to start this thread to see if there are any other players out there who share the same concern that I have with tiered spells being eliminated.

I could go on and on in regards to the problems with this new system that is to be implemented, but I think I have made my point. In closing, SE please think before you take action and change a perfectly good system into what you "think" will be more suitable. These types of changes should absolutely have to be rigorously tested in various situations including xp parties, instanced dungeons, and fights such as the Ifrit battle before they are ever considered for actual placement and use in game. I'm going to be none to pleased when I'm being eaten by mobs because I dropped a "Cure" on a tank/DD and it causes me to draw hate because my spell was scaled to my level and the potency caused the mob to see me as a threat. Also, and I know I have already mentioned this, this is going to cause a lot of trouble for us mages when it comes to conserving mp.

Share your feedback. Maybe my opinion is not necessarily correct and everything will work out beautifully, but I highly doubt it will, unless we are given the option to choose the potency of the 1 spell available for us to use which has been scaled to be as potent as it should be at a player's level.

Another thread started before we receive the full details of the changes. I see.

This is a concern shared by the whole community. The information is released at least 20 ~ 25 days in advance from the patch release date, why can you not wait until the second part of the changes to form an argument that has an actual base for your concerns?

I find it laughable that you tell SE, the game's Developer they need to "Think" before they plan things like this, that this needs to be tested in different situations such as exp parties, dungeons and Ifrit and Moogle fight... Are you for real?

I will remind you all these class changes info is being given to us in advance so we provide feedback, but the information is not yet complete. Please, please, please, please, pleaseeeeee, wait until you know the full details of what is being released before you provide accurate and useful feedback.

If we, the players, are able to see the issues that might arise with these changes, even while not having all the details, what makes you think that the people that do this for a living and are professionals at what they do will not see it from the outset and have already started countermeasures to avoid this?....

Lets assume they have not, for arguments sake, it is why they are releasing the information 20 days before the patch... Anyway, as I have said in another thread, I will be at the forefront of the feedback train once I have the full info if I see it might not work as they intended, but.. before you shun or refuse to accept changes coming, at least wait until you know all the facts...

[Dreamer]

They did this same nonsense in WoW and it was a bad idea to remove them then too. There is nothing confusing about having multiple versions of spells. They allow you to cast more strategically. Please quit copying bad ideas.

[Teakwood]

Yes, it is a step in the right direction. We haven't seen the ability lists yet, you have absolutely no idea what the gameplay is going to be like or what enmity control tools there will be. Stop jumping to conclusions.

[darkstarpoet1]

Maybe a compromise with us? Remove tiered weapon skills, but leave spells tiered? I honestly do replace lower tier ws with their higher versions. Spells are a different beast all together and shouldn't be treated the same.

i don't even think it needs to leave all the tiered spells. i don't mind losing banish II, fire II, or skull sunder II. i just feel the heals we should be able to maintain the versatility that we have now when it comes to managing hate.

they could have gotten rid of alot of the issues if they hadn't added curaga, raise II, rebirth, and curaga II though and just left us with the aoe toggle. they added 2 new cures and 2 raises and then turn around and say well we are going to remove 2/3 of your spells becuse there's too many of them.