The whole A A A A2 A1 A3 = B What the!?

[Jinrya-Geki]

For example, if you clear a mission of the scenario as a battle-type class, as an adventurer, you’ve already experienced this story. Even if you were to change your class to a Disciple of the Hand and try to experience the same story from a different angle, as an adventurer, this is just merely something that you have already accomplished previously.

Even if there are quests with different angles, such as scenario A1, scenario A2, scenario A3, they will be no different from scenario A1. It’s possible to flesh out some ideas, fix the axis of time and create "A1", "A2", and "A3" as parallel episodes. However, in this case, after clearing episode A, once you play episode B, you're already heading towards the future of the scenario and if you then play episode A2 or A3, narrative paradoxes will develop.

So, you're thinking now, "Well, how about if you create a episode A2 version 2 in case you play episode A2 after clearing episode B…" This is just not possible. For a console game, there is a finite end point so something like this is possible. You can even play again from the beginning. But for an MMO, as long as it is being updated, the "what ifs" can continue on infinitely.

The way to avoid this is to have a flag so if you don't clear A1, A2, or A3 then you will not be able to reach episode B.

However, if you set it up so A1 is the Disciple of War/Magic one, A2 is the Disciple of the Land one, and A3 is the Disciple of the Hand one, it results in you not being able to move forward unless you play as every class. Creating these types of flags ultimately results in a loss of freedom.

Well, how about if you make it so if you clear either A1, or A2, or A3 then it counts as a complete clear? Looking at this from a class standpoint this is okay. However, when looking at this from the adventurer standpoint, each class is parallel to one another. Due to this, the development team cannot guarantee that players can see every story as the class they desire to.

For MMORPGs, since data is saved on the server, it's not like you can simply hit the reset button and roll back your progress.

The first time in my life I couldn't read something. Words are there, but for some reason, the sentences aren't forming to me. I can't understand what is being said.

I get lost when he starts mentions Scenario A, then A again, then a 3rd A.

What is it like being Ifrit as a Battle class having one story, then beating him as a DoL/H having another?

[Manafont]

he's saying. Play as a DOM/DOW instead of crying about wanting dungeons from different perspectives as DOH/DOL Once you complete it once there is really nothing different that can happen without effecting the story that happens in B.

[Estellios]

He's giving an example of parallel storylines to accomodate multiple classes. So let's say:

A1 is the Battle classes storyline. A fort is being attacked by beastmen and you defend it.
A2 is the crafter storyline. You make weapons/armor for the people defending the fort
A3 is the gatherer storyline. You... uh...

Progressing onto story part B would cause time paradoxes or whatever when you go back and do the other disciples stuff because it would be events that already happened and therefore shouldn't be happening now. The other option would be to make all the A scenes a requirement before you could go to the B scene, but that would require everyone leveling 1 of each discipline and generally be a pain in the ass.

[AngryNixon]

I took it as a wall of text to basically say "your suggestions are stupid and don't make sense when confronted with a little thing we at SE like to call reality."

Or if you wish in other words "We won't be going down that rabbit hole never to return, k thx."

[quantumsaint]

He is talking about the difficulty of making content that is accessible for everyone. They could have separate scenarios for DoW/M, DoL, DoH, but then to progress onto the next quest, you would have to clear all three. This is bad because it forces people to play classes they might not like. So the alternate route is to make it so you can complete a scenario as DoW/M, DoL, or DoH (any one of the three) before going on to the next quest. This doesn't work because there is no way (at least without devoting a lot of resources to it) to make DoW/M, DoL, or DoH experiences similar. For your Ifrit example, let's say a DoW/DoM party clears it. Now if a DoL party just has to saw his horns off and throw rocks at him, it cheapens the experience for DoW/DoM who had to work very hard to fight him. The only option then (from Yoshida's stand point) is to create battle content that can only be cleared by DoW/DoM, while still offering other content for DoL/DoH.

Hope that helps.

[Reinheart]

A1 = Battle
A2 = Crafter
A3 = Gatherer

if you want story for everything and also have a game where you can play all 3 types, for the devs they have to come up with a way if you finish A1 then playing A2 which techinically will feel weird since you already finished A1 and if you make B have to make sure once you watch/step into B timeframe you can't go back to A1,2,3

It just going to take way too much effort on devs end to make which will delay expanding the game even more so he just said it's better to make 1 main story line, and sorry but gatherer and crafter will be side story, which may talk about stuff that happened in the main story.

[RemVye]

he's saying. Play as a DOM/DOW instead of crying about wanting dungeons from different perspectives as DOH/DOL Once you complete it once there is really nothing different that can happen without effecting the story that happens in B.

lmao... manafont on a roll today aww you edited it...




Red Mage (def not of Wizard caliber) he was saying it's a waste of time to create 3 seperate quest / storylines that all have the same end but use different views.

Example:

A1.) You are standing on the beach looking at a boat on the ocean and it explodes
A2.) You are standing on a dock looking at a boat in the ocean and it explodes
A3.) You are riding on a Ferris wheel looking at a boat in the ocean and it explodes
Note: same boat and ocean

All of them are the same thing, you are viewing a different angle.

If you completed episode on A (either 1, 2, or 3) , then you have seen the ship explode. Now you go to part B, you call the police.

B1.) Call from beach
B2.) Call from Dock
B3.) Call from Ferris wheel

Now you completed episode B by calling the cops. A and B have been completed. But you now go back and do part A2... its a paradox, you've already seen this you're traveling backward in time.

Then he goes on to say that creating individual scenarios based on the points you have completed are too expensive.

[Wolfie]

Scenario 1:



Each A being a different discipline. You now force players to level one of each discipline.


Scenario 2:



Whichever path you now take, you lose out on 2 others that might have been cooler/what you wanted.


Real solution:

Combat classes get their own, separate content. Gatherers get their own, separate content. Crafters get their own, separate content.

[Shift]

^ Yeah that

Basicly in his terminology:

A = DoW/DoM Storyline point of view
A1 = DoL Storyline point of view
A2 = DoH Storyline point of view

So he's saying that the problem is that either you would have to view all "point of views" of the story line to progress to B. Or you can do Storyline A only, but once you start storyline B, you cant go back to A1 or A2 if you missed those parts. He's saying its too complicated that way so they are going to go the route of advancing the main Storyline via DoW/DoM. Then give DoL and DoH a side storyline of their own eventually.

[Mrfox0707]

Yeah, I got lost in all of that too. The good point being is that he hates they idea and wont be doing it. So now you have to play a fighting class to experience the game's main story.