Why the heavy focus on instance only?

[Jynx]

Yeah, all the endgame linkshells were really planning their week around Fields of Valor and coffer key runs.

Yeah all the endgame linkshells were watching Vtra on a 72 hour basis amiright guys?

Not everyone participated in the stuff you claim to be 100% of FFXI.

Assault, Besieged, Campaign, ENM, ZNM, BCNM, Dreamworld Dynamis, Limbus, Sea, Quests, Leveling, none of these overtly focuses on "Claiming your content" Stop with your hyperbole. XI had tons of content outside instances that was worth doing and hardly ever as competeted for as you make it out to be.

A few NM's being overcamped for marginally better gear? Sure it happened, we also had a amazing community from it to an extent. Not everything is going to be sunshine and rainbows even with all instanced content I can assure you that. Hell I bet when the next FF-online comes out there will be people like you bashing how XIV did things like people do with XI. It's an enigma wrapped in a puzzle layered over a conundrum how people have such selective minds when they want too.

I don't deny XI had it's share of issues and the 72 hour NM's were one of them but for the most part those utterly DISSAPEARED when they released new content, it's not SE's fault that people continue to obsess over content from the game during its early years.

The thing XI did was give you such a amazing expansion of option to do, with the level cap being 75 for so long the ammount of gear you could wear was astounding, just because some people obsessed over abjuration gear when there were hundreds of other viable options to them isn't SE's problem they weren't going to break game balance just to get people to come off of HNM's. Abysea did that, now it's all instanced and boring as hell.

Want to get anywhere in XI nowdays? Abysea runs!

But this dungeon finder thing is being blown way out of proportion. It's really a self-defeating argument because:

A) It will be successful, everyone will use it and will get to run the content of their choosing.

or

B) It will fail, no one will use it and we'll go back to shouting like we always have.

This is the great thing about talking these issues out, because I have a vastly different idea than what you have about how the Dungeon finder can mess things up. I'm willing to support the devs and give it a shot when it comes out, but as it stands with the limited information we have available I am going to tell them why I think it's a bad idea.

A: It will be sucsesfull and playing on a server has absolutly no meaning anymore, economy will be either shot due to making dungeon loot rare/ex or flucuate insanely due to loot drops from cross server content mucking things up.

B: It will fail and SE will continue to push it because they spent alot of time/money on a system nobody wants to use, leaving people who want open world content in the dust.

It's hard to not imagine SE focusing heavily on instanced content with such a large endeavor to make cross server play possible and feasable. I think it's wasted time and effort I don't see many people screaming for darkhold or ifirit runs as it stands the entry requirement are nowhere near as harsh as XI was so finding a group of people on your own damn server hasn't been much of a challenge...why waste the time and money when it's not even a issue?

[Xianghua]

Yeah all the endgame linkshells were watching Vtra on a 72 hour basis amiright guys?

Not everyone participated in the stuff you claim to be 100% of FFXI.

Because Vrtra had nothing good to go after to even bother camping. people went after him because they were bored.

Assault, Besieged, Campaign, ENM, ZNM, BCNM, Dreamworld Dynamis, Limbus, Sea, Quests, Leveling, none of these overtly focuses on "Claiming your content" Stop with your hyperbole. XI had tons of content outside instances that was worth doing and hardly ever as competeted for as you make it out to be.

Assault, ENM, BCNM, ZNM(bosses). dynamis, Limbus - instanced

The thing XI did was give you such a amazing expansion of option to do, with the level cap being 75 for so long the ammount of gear you could wear was astounding, just because some people obsessed over abjuration gear when there were hundreds of other viable options to them isn't SE's problem they weren't going to break game balance just to get people to come off of HNM's. Abysea did that, now it's all instanced and boring as hell.

comparing a game with its expansions to one that has none kinda pointless.

Want to get anywhere in XI nowdays? Abysea runs!

Abyssea is actually open world simply because everyone is together in the same zones. and you complain about it?

I don't even know where to start...this statement is wrong in so many ways.

Yes it basically is simply because with open world you always have the Chance to do said content. because its open to all
2 groups already there? will to bad for you there goes your plans for the night. however with instance you always get to do what you want. 6 groups doing darkhold? that's fine you still can go and and get the event done have fun. You say its not claim game but it is. no matter how you do it. if the event is open to everyone. you will always have a chance just to do the event.

Once again most of XI's content was Instanced. the only time XI became more focused on open world content was get ready. ABYSSEA! Abyssea was the 1st time you can get all your gear from open world. it completely killed off everything else. Every other place in the game because 100% useless. you were either in Jeuno or abyssea.

[Jynx]

Yes it basically is simply because with open world you always have the Chance to do said content. because its open to all
2 groups already there? will to bad for you there goes your plans for the night. however with instance you always get to do what you want.

If I want to do a instance I require a group of people, I can't just go and explore for the hell of it. I can't prod the enemies on my own to learn more about them, I can't enjoy the sights just for fun. It forces me to group, I'm not short on friends but I do like to take things at my own pace and go where I please.

Invisible walls telling me "You can't enter without 4 people dood" make me angry, for a instanced fight? Sure why not that's fine with me but to get into the area at all? Slap some time limits on that and it makes the game very restricted. At least in XI your "mainly instanced" is so wrong.

Things like Campaign were extremly friendly for people who just wanted something to do, my friends not around and I want to get a few merits? Campaign, FoV, a whole damn world with monsters I can find to solo, dungeons to explore.

XIV is lacking a real overworld even now most of the areas are neglected because all of the content is pinpoint focused in the world with a massive map with no meaning to it other than being large. I could hardly walk 5 minutes in XI without finding something to do with a quest, a NM (Even if it had nothing worth looting), people playing, sights to see, items to gather, maps to get, craig crystal to collect, camps to document, dungeons to explore.

While XI did have a large ammount of instanced content they only did this after they had a very well fleshed out world to stage the instances in.

Almost all the instanced content required you to travel in the current world, XIV you hardly have to step foot outside of town or past the nearest aetherite camp to do something. I remember my excursions to Ulegrand range ENM being a brutal trip with amazing rewards.

I remember my trip to the Darkhold, Totorak, Ifirit, and any strongholds as being a merry jog from the nearest aetherite camp...and hell even if I walked it is hardly a dangerous or spectacular journey.

Attowah Chasm...them damn Antlions and poison bushes, what I'm trying to say is while there was alot of instanced content it was fleshed inside of the open world where as XIV seems to avoid the world at all times possible. Sure XI had teleports and such but even then they themselves usually entailed some sort of price incured in the open world content.

[Wolfie]

If I want to do a instance I require a group of people, I can't just go and explore for the hell of it. I can't prod the enemies on my own to learn more about them, I can't enjoy the sights just for fun. It forces me to group, I'm not short on friends but I do like to take things at my own pace and go where I please.

Invisible walls telling me "You can't enter without 4 people dood" make me angry, for a instanced fight? Sure why not that's fine with me but to get into the area at all? Slap some time limits on that and it makes the game very restricted. At least in XI your "mainly instanced" is so wrong.

That has nothing to do with the content being instanced and has everything to do with Yoshi putting some stupid entry requirements and gating the content. You needed 3 people to get past the mage gate until you had your Portal Charm, and that wasn't instanced content.

In WOW, you can enter dungeons without being in a group, and there is no time limit on how long you can stay inside.

You're hating on instanced content for shortcomings that were forced on the content, and that are applicable to both seamless and instanced content.

[Baxter]

If I want to do a instance I require a group of people, I can't just go and explore fohttp://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=443854r the hell of it. I can't prod the enemies on my own to learn more about them, I can't enjoy the sights just for fun. It forces me to group, I'm not short on friends but I do like to take things at my own pace and go where I please.

Invisible walls telling me "You can't enter without 4 people dood" make me angry, for a instanced fight? Sure why not that's fine with me but to get into the area at all? Slap some time limits on that and it makes the game very restricted. At least in XI your "mainly instanced" is so wrong.

Things like Campaign were extremly friendly for people who just wanted something to do, my friends not around and I want to get a few merits? Campaign, FoV, a whole damn world with monsters I can find to solo, dungeons to explore.

XIV is lacking a real overworld even now most of the areas are neglected because all of the content is pinpoint focused in the world with a massive map with no meaning to it other than being large. I could hardly walk 5 minutes in XI without finding something to do with a quest, a NM (Even if it had nothing worth looting), people playing, sights to see, items to gather, maps to get, craig crystal to collect, camps to document, dungeons to explore.

While XI did have a large ammount of instanced content they only did this after they had a very well fleshed out world to stage the instances in.

Almost all the instanced content required you to travel in the current world, XIV you hardly have to step foot outside of town or past the nearest aetherite camp to do something. I remember my excursions to Ulegrand range ENM being a brutal trip with amazing rewards.

I remember my trip to the Darkhold, Totorak, Ifirit, and any strongholds as being a merry jog from the nearest aetherite camp...and hell even if I walked it is hardly a dangerous or spectacular journey.

Attowah Chasm...them damn Antlions and poison bushes, what I'm trying to say is while there was alot of instanced content it was fleshed inside of the open world where as XIV seems to avoid the world at all times possible. Sure XI had teleports and such but even then they themselves usually entailed some sort of price incured in the open world content.

^this, exactly

[Jinko]

Things like Campaign were extremly friendly for people who just wanted something to do, my friends not around and I want to get a few merits? Campaign, FoV, a whole damn world with monsters I can find to solo, dungeons to explore.

This is completely different content though !!

We are getting hamlet defense added which will be kind of like Campaign, guildleves are basically FoV and last I checked we have a while damn world with monsters that we can solo.

Granted they are taking dungeons away, but its hardly the end of the world, if you have that much time that you want to explore a dungeon go check out Nanawa and Copperbell (and the like), I can almost assure you these won't be instanced. (why would they instance those kinds of area's when they have nothing in them).

If you want to argue whether those area's will be converted to instances perhaps you can ask a community dev if he could ask Yoshi what the plan for those kind of area's will be.

All, I have to say, if people like instances so much, why don't you play vindictus!? Thats 100%instanced

Vindictus is a hack and slash MO more akin to Phantasy star online than a proper MMO.

[Jynx]

I can almost assure you these won't be instanced. (why would they instance those kinds of area's when they have nothing in them).

My question is will we ever see any more areas like them?

Hell will we see any new zones introduced at all in the game after the 2.0 map remakes or will it all just be piling ontop of instances? There are a hundred ways they can go with this and I'd like a more clear direction on what they are planing to do personally. I find it hard to give feedback on ambiguity, all we know is Yoshida statements are clearly in favor of a heavilly instanced world because of his fondness for the "Dungeon finder" mechanic many games have latched onto lately.

I have no other choice than to speak out on the worst case scenario (In my opinion obviously) where little to no new content is introduced for open-world scenarios and everything is focused on the next new dungeon. When the developers release more information about a actual system then I can refine my criticisms but as it stands nobody really knows what is happening so all we can do is discuss amongst ourselves the possible outcomes.

For all we know they could turn Coperbell and Nanawa into small instanced zones and add low level rewards to them or even a SP reward for completion, a total revamp of the world/map allows them to do these things. Forget about visiting unique locations for quests by yourself, forget about a dynamic living open world to explore. Forget about "The world" entirely if they focus too heavily on instanced content.

While I have faith in the dev team to not do this, it wont stop me from pointing out the flaws of a worst case scenario situation. Obviously I lean towards open-world content due to my sense of exploration, and adventure but it doesn't mean I don't understand the usefullness of instances.

In my ideal world instances are for stuff like Darkhold, Ifirit and the sort. But attaining entry into these instances at times may require a journy through the open world...unfortunatly for me "Dungeon finder" will require it for people to be able to reach these areas quickly, unharmed, or not even travel to them at all!

I personally don't see the point of the dungeon finder system when even in its current state I don't see too many people being left out of content due to lack of players/friends. Maybe it's just my server though but I don't often see people shouting for pickups on Ifirit or Darkhold.

One must also understand that the dungeon finder will also lead to content probably being eased up in difficulty as the developers will be expecting a large ammount of people to be playing together for the first time or with less than optimal party setups. There are a vast aray of issues that come up in this instanced heavy scenario and I for one am against it, I personally enjoyed having a server community getting to know the players wether I really wanted to or not.

Even as a heavy solo player in XI I knew a wide variaty of people from newbs to the best of the best. People knew me because we often crossed paths in the world hell we may have never even participated in any content but we knew eachother! It's like living in a small town where wether you want to or not you depend on everyone in one way or another. That botanist you always see scurrying about? He gives you the wood, that your crafter makes your weapons with.

Whatever sense of community we have now is going to dissapear once stuff like cross server play starts creeping into every facet of the game world.

Perhaps I'm going overboard with the worry but I truely hope they don't implement the cross server play, and if they do I hope the server communities can endure and stay strong despite outside influences.

[Kiote]

Granted they are taking dungeons away, but its hardly the end of the world, if you have that much time that you want to explore a dungeon go check out Nanawa and Copperbell (and the like), I can almost assure you these won't be instanced. (why would they instance those kinds of area's when they have nothing in them).

Go read over the 2.0 information again. It states quite definitively "All Non-Instanced Dungeons" will be converted to Instanced dungeons.

That symbol on the map at the entrance to Copperbell and Nanawa means Dungeon entrance.