Why the heavy focus on instance only?

[Jynx]

"Technically" means you dont know what your talking about, it is or its not.

err....ok.

The game is a series of exremly large instances based on servers. We have the 3 main zones split into smaller zones themselves by hidden zone-lines where our characters pass from one area to the next.

The servers themselves are holding a "Instance" of the game world, I'm not sure why I have to point this out as it has no point anyways in the way we are talking about instances.

The "Open world" is a instance, but calling it such is pointless as it's not what we are trying to define when we as the community are talking about instanced content.

So when I say technically it's not incorrect, I mean they are correct in calling the game itself a instance. How it relates to the argument at hand about instanced dungeons...I'm not sure, what you are trying to say...I am also unsure.

[Hiten]

Ok lets say what if Yoshi-san added a fair share of open world contents where you go to camp NMs/HNMs. But at the price of having loot/gear drops of a lower grade quality than the loot/gears which drops in Instanced dungeons. Would you be agreeable to such a condition?

[Choyi]

Ok lets say what if Yoshi-san added a fair share of open world contents where you go to camp NMs/HNMs. But at the price of having loot/gear drops of a lower grade quality than the loot/gears which drops in Instanced dungeons. Would you be agreeable to such a condition?

I'm sorry but that sounds just silly, why not just make it equal then instead?

Example; instanced boss drops "Helm of Slaying +40hp STR+7", Open world boss drops "Slayers Celat"a with same stats, just palett swap the same helmet and boom, problem solved.
This example takes in account same difficulty of said boss, just in the instanced one you dont have to worry about competition (but might have time limit restriction or what have you).

Either that or since instanced content is technicaly (no preasure about others claiming/messing up the fight, if you wipe you can just go again) easier to learn then open world in most cases, if anything have the instanced loot stats slightly lower.

Or a last sugggestion to that, have the instance drop the item on the spot while the open world drops a craftable piece which makes pretty much the same item. The possibilites to make this equal and up to preferance to the players are many and I'm sure the Yoshi-p and his devs could figure out something great and fair.


On topic of the thread; I'm sick to death of MMOs with a 99% instanced end game, personaly I'd like to see a equal ratio between the two possibly slightly favoring instsanced (say 60-40) as long as both types of end game offers equal challenges and rewards with balance taken into account.
As others have said nowadays MMOs feel alot like they're loosing the "Massive" parts of the game.

[Hiten]

What I am trying to point out is that open world areas would be an invitation to people who unfairly bot/hack their way to having superior items. So by having lower grade quality items than Instanced areas, it would discourage them.

Or perhaps your idea of having a craft able piece which drops off open world bosses and whereas inside Instanced areas, you are able to obtain the entire item, of course with different names. It's which ever road you choose to get your item. Main thing Yoshida wants is pretty clear when he mentioned non Instanced areas will be converted to Instanced areas. It's clear he is making a point that there is no room for people who bot/hack.

[Kiote]

What I am trying to point out is that open world areas would be an invitation to people who unfairly bot/hack their way to having superior items. So by having lower grade quality items than Instanced areas, it would discourage them.

Or perhaps your idea of having a craft able piece which drops off open world bosses and whereas inside Instanced areas, you are able to obtain the entire item, of course with different names. It's which ever road you choose to get your item. Main thing Yoshida wants is pretty clear when he mentioned non Instanced areas will be converted to Instanced areas. It's clear he is making a point that there is no room for people who bot/hack.

There are other ways to deal with Bots. Most effectively is Forced Spawn NMs.

Complete a Puzzle = Spawns/Claims NM

Use a Crafted Item = Spawns/Claims NM

Fish in the Right Spot = Spawns/Claims NM

Initiate Levequest = Spawn/Claim NM

Kill X-number of Specific Species = Spawns/Claims NM

If people are just worried about Open world NMs being to hard to claim, you simply take the claim out of it. Attach a Manual spawn to an HNM and give a small story as to why the given action Spawns it. Then you can build on top of all your Forced Spawns like a ZNM system where killing HNMs unlocks Higher Tier HNMs by dropping spawn Items.

We should never Water Down our games world for Fear or Bots and RMT. There are always ways around it.

[Xatsh]

Having lower quality items then what is in instances, negates the content. I do not know of anyone who does work with no reward. Example how many people run darkhold dungeons anymore? There is just no reason to.

Needs to have equal rewards, I see no reason not to. Open World = heavy competition if lotto spawns, instances = all depends on your groups skill if you win or lose, but you have no competition.

Solution to botting/hacking.... do not make lotto spawns. Make force spawns (pop nms) and World event type deals. Look at the GW2 large open world dragon fights and XI ZNMS if you want to see some good open world stuff that bots cannot give an advantage. Doing this there is nothing to bot and you have open world.

[Morningstar]

I love the concept of open world dungeons but I feel that in XI these dungeons were wasted or underutilized. You had these massive dungeons and essentially their only use was to camp at the entrance and grind mobs. Maybe after a few levels you'd go in a little deeper. You probably had to do some exploring to find a coffer for an AF quest.

Even for rank and story missions it was typical for players to have higher levels aid them or sneak/invis their way through. I really loved the CoP missions and it was for the reason that you had actually had to have a strong group and fight your way through dungeons, complete all objectives, and then fight a boss.

That's the kind of content that I want and if the best way for the devs to accomplish this is to focus more on instances, then so be it.

[Hiten]

That means in other words for those Open World lovers, the most effective measures would be Forced Spawn NMs/HNMs.

As quoted earlier by Kiote:
"There are other ways to deal with Bots. Most effectively is Forced Spawn NMs.
Complete a Puzzle = Spawns/Claims NM
Use a Crafted Item = Spawns/Claims NM
Fish in the Right Spot = Spawns/Claims NM
Initiate Levequest = Spawn/Claim NM
Kill X-number of Specific Species = Spawns/Claims NM

If people are just worried about Open world NMs being to hard to claim, you simply take the claim out of it. Attach a Manual spawn to an HNM and give a small story as to why the given action Spawns it. Then you can build on top of all your Forced Spawns like a ZNM system where killing HNMs unlocks Higher Tier HNMs by dropping spawn Items."

and also

quoted earlier by Xatsh
"Solution to botting/hacking.... do not make lotto spawns."

Lottery pops of X-hour NMs/HNMs should be completely scrapped in open world areas.

[Zoltan]

Yoshi said that ALL dungeons will be instanced.

I imagine that they are planning to implement the dungeon finder mechanic just like so many MMOs have.

Final Fantasy XIV just doesn't need to be a duplicate of other MMOs. It was unique in the way they did things.

What they failed to do was take mechanics from the first version that worked. Specifically the party search and grouping feature. It was great.

There were a list of people looking for parties and they could put their available jobs and you could selectively pick and choose they way that you wanted to play.

With the dungeon finder from Rift, for example, you have no choice. It's completely random who you get matched with.

There is something to be said for single server group making. You get to know the people on your server or recognize their names. It builds community.

If they really go to multiple server, random dungeon finder, it's not going to build any sense of community. The last thing I want is to be randomly put in a dungeon with a bunch of role-players.

I think that they are going in the wrong direction. Its a shame that they don't listen to their player base before blazing ahead with their ideas (i.e. Yoshi-san's jump quote).

[Rokien]

Still, no instanced lovers commented on my idea of playing vindictus! NO CLAIMING, NO CAMPING, NO NOTHING YOU HATE IN THAT GAME. FUN COMBAT, FAST PACED, PLAY SOLO, PLAY WITH A FEW OTHERS. If you want instanced dungeons go to vindictus, this game shouldn't be based on that type of content. It's a massive open world, that should have reason to explore(secrets). SE shouldn't tell us everything, they should keep some nms hidden, just hint towards them(psst theres nms you guys haven't found yet!) There should be random treasures around the world(gil, weapons, extra.) I'm playing skyrim right now, and I can't imagine how cool it would be if I could play with a few other people on that game. Just exploring with each other, fighting each other, everything else. This game needs more of that, not some round about way on forcing people to play with each other. They have to make it where you WANT to play with others have a reason to share something with someone. Instances, no thank you. They take away that exploration.