Tanking frustration when others pull

[MirielleLavandre]

Hi all, I've recently been wanting to change from my main of WHM to DRK. I have PLD at 50 from before HW, so am used to tanking at least those dungeons and most 50 content on PLD. However, I find that even more so today than before HW, people seem to love pulling mobs before I can get to them to even Unmend, let alone Unleash. Not only this, some synched dps seem to find fun in targeting and focusing on mobs I have the least aggro on and going all out in an attempt to steal hate (I have a bard at 60, too, and know how easy it is to read the enmity meter next to mob names...they're even color coded :

It is easy to get aggro back no matter who 'steals' it, or even when other people pull a pack or two without me, but why do people even do this? I'm not going slow, and I plan my pulls according to the capability of the healer and the amount of dps I see coming after using the first one or 2 pulls to gauge both healer ability and dps AoE. In the old days I'd pull all the way to the gate in Brayflox HM and as far as possible to pull in Snowcloak -- I'm not unfamiliar with speed runs, etc.

How do you main tanks deal with things like this? People who pull for you and seem to be in a competition with you for aggro? This very thing is one of the reasons I went with WHM as main instead of PLD back before Heavensward, though this time I want to try to tough it out with DRK since I love the playstyle and the animations ^^ Any advice would be helpful [as a healer if people kept doing this with the intention to be abusive and/or hurt the party, I'd just let them die...bad, maybe, but still..].

[Risvertasashi]

So, as I play around on alts again... one thing I will say is please mark your targets.

I have a macro that target's the tank's target, but sometimes the tank switchs frequently. I have a macro to target the other DPS's target, but sometimes they change targets 5 times per fight. If aggro is a problem, please mark the freaking targets so I can figure out what to dead when people are changing targets every 2 seconds. I don't think most people on DPS object to this, though at higher levels you may see a good amount of AoE spam.

If DPS are pulling for you... I don't think there's much you can do except 'you want to tank it, you got it', but then it might go for your healer...

When I play tank, at low-ish levels, just spam flash (it's better than the aggro combo until 26). At higher levels... even still a lot of flash isn't necessarily a bad idea. Can DRKs spam unleash? If so, try throwing a few more of those around.

[MirielleLavandre]

Thx Makani - yes, I can spam Unleash, and usually use two or so to help establish hate then proceed to either single target hate rotation or just use syphon to get MP back. My issue is more that people pull groups/mobs before I can even get to them to be in the radius of Unleash (which is huge). I get hate with just one Unleash but it still just makes every dungeon this happens in very annoying and makes me want to leave the dungeon and just FATE/PotD to 60, which isn't bad but I can see it really hurting beginner/new tanks and making them not want to continue to main tank anymore - which will, of course, lead to even longer queues for the very ones who caused these people to not make tank their main.But yep, I mark targets if it seems needed, but if there are no sprouts I'll just let them do what they usually do and AoE spam/ST focus depending on what they think is best since I can keep hate off of even bigger trash groups on DRK than I used to be able to on PLD at those low levels.

[Risvertasashi]

My issue is more that people pull groups/mobs before I can even get to them to be in the radius of Unleash (which is huge).

I know more than a few people that have quit tanking for exactly this reason.... I don't have a good answer, unfortunately. Those types are likely to just be rude if you ask them to stop, but you can always try, at least. If I'm feeling especially masochistic and decide to take a tank into roulette... I try to make sure I'm always a step ahead, eyeing and planning out my next pull before the last mob is dead. But even then sometimes...

[Lyth]

There are two reasons. First, most dps jobs have buffs that they're trying to maintain. There's a rush to get to the next pack and find something to hit before GL/BotD/Eno-chaaan expires. Second, dps are easily distracted by their need to smash things. You need to keep them entertained. Pull everything.

The limiting factor in the pull is rarely your healer. It's the amount of dps that you can push out as a group. This is coupled with the fact that DRK is almost invulnerable for 20 seconds out of every minute during AoE pulls, with some fairly robust cooldowns for the time in-between. You can make pretty much any pull happen if you want it to, as long as everyone meets the minimum entrance ilvl requirements.

The easiest way to stop dps from pulling? Wait for buffs, then hit sprint. They can't pull if they don't get there first. It doesn't matter which mobs they target, because you have their enmity locked down. They can't pull more mobs if you pull everything first. The goal is to clear and finish rolling on loot before anyone has a chance to object.

[MirielleLavandre]

Thx Lythia - I understand the buff upkeep, and I notice this a ton when I'm on WHM in the 60 dungeons, but mostly I'm talking about the newbie dungeons below 40 or even the beginning 50 ones, before anyone has BotD or Enocain (sp). Like, in Sastash, Haukke, even Brayflox NM and such. If these were Heavensward dungeons or even dungeons when tanks have mostly their full complement of enmity skills, I'd think it fine. But to pull things before a tank in these beginner dungeons seems wrong to me, is all ^^

[AegisKiddo]

Its a simple fix kick the dps who dares to hit a target before you do; if you mark and they don't follow directions, this is only a further vindication for them to get the boot

[Aurius]

Use unleash more, before abyssal drain it's your best spammable aoe damage. The amount of unleash you use is dependant on the number of enemies, and how much mp you have. Don't Mark targets, most dps I play with ignore them so don't bother. Focus on aoe hate. As far as prepulling that sucks but if they get hit once or twice IT'S THEIR FAULT pull hate as soon as you can, but some people are in such a rush that they insist on setting the pace of the dungeon

[AegisKiddo]

As far as prepulling that sucks but if they get hit once or twice IT'S THEIR FAULT pull hate as soon as you can, but some people are in such a rush that they insist on setting the pace of the dungeon

Its up to the tank to decide the pace of the dungeon, no different from a raid, if the tank dies because of too many mobs it's over, but if a dps dies because he attacked first then he wont get a raise

[Canadane]

If people are pulling in order to keep their buffs active, such as Blood of the Dragon or Greased Lightning, then I actually much prefer if they continue to pull, and I'll start to make an active effort to lessen the distance between one group and another if possible.
These are the DPS I want in my groups.