Let's talk about character progression

[DoctorPepper]

So in a recent interview, Yoshi P was discussing character progression and based on his answers it seems like he feels people who want more character progression are too quiet and because of that they are planning to just play it safe and not change or add anything to it.

Personally I am getting tired of the rinse and repeat feeling I get from this game. Don't get me wrong, I love the game, but simply replacing gear every 6 months with higher ilvl gear that has slightly better stats is getting a little old.

Some things I would love to see are:
1. Additional stats/effects on gear. The reasoning behind not doing this has always been that players might feel they have to get certain pieces of gear as a requirement. The bottom line is that there are only 2 sets of gear that are the best anyways. I would love to see some cool special effects on gear that are unique to gear, aside from simply boring old stats.

2. Some type of endgame merit system - a reason to continue getting exp for very minor boosts to your character. Personally I would even say they don't have to be combat related, give us things like increased movement speed out of combat or on a mount, increased exp from fates. These are just some suggestions but I think they could really expand on this in a way where none of this is actually required.

3. Relic Weapons - the current system does not have a lot to be desired, all you do is mindlessly grind content you've already done. I get that it's a way to keep the content "busy" so that players who haven't experienced won't have such an abysmal queue time. Personally I would love to see a system where you sort of level up the weapon gradually, for example, have the quests give consumable items that you can use to boost a relic weapons "exp" and as it levels up the weapon gets slightly stronger. The reason I would prefer this is because it would allow you to progress naturally rather than in a big chunk after a huge grindy quest that ultimately gets nerfed 4-5 months later.

Anyways, those are some of my thoughts on character progression. I'm curious to hear what others think. Do we need to expand the character progression? If we do then what are your suggestions? If we don't then why do you think the current system is working?

[Alberel]

Honestly, as much as I hate to say this, I think we need to look to WoW again.

Blizzard is (in)famous for taking ideas from other games and then improving on them to make them their own. The new Legion expansion has taken relic weapons from FFXIV and turned them into a new character progression system. There are multiple relics per class, unique stories for each, and the weapon can be levelled, upgraded and enhanced as a new form of post-cap character progression. If SE wants a guide for what to do then they should look at how much better Blizzard is now doing relic weapons as that system alone would likely satisfy most of the players who currently feel like progression stagnates at the cap.

My main point though is that the game needs a form of endgame progression that is NOT based on simply getting new equipment.

[Istaru]

As much as I agree that endgame needs work, Yoshi-P has stated over and over again that these things are not going to happen sadly.

[dragonseth07]

What happens when you cap out on whatever new system gets added? You end up exactly where you are now.

The problem isn't the lack of progression. The problem is people being capped and wanting more. There's no way to fix that.

[Istaru]

What happens when you cap out on whatever new system gets added? You end up exactly where you are now.

The problem isn't the lack of progression. The problem is people being capped and wanting more. There's no way to fix that.

OMG! I could, like, you know, actually gear up another job?

I have everything at 60, I enjoy playing different jobs. Every even patch I have to go back to only working on one again.

[Kaurie]

Why make a 3rd thread on the same topic?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-game-the-most

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...aracter-Growth

[DoctorPepper]

Why make a 3rd thread on the same topic?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-game-the-most

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...aracter-Growth

Didn't see the 2nd one because it's an older thread and currently on page 4.. I don't like how the 1st one you linked makes Yoshi out to be a bad guy.

I'm just looking for other people's suggestions or thoughts, what difference does it make how many threads there are?

Yoshi P said we're a quiet minority in his recent interview so this is my attempt to make some of us heard.

What happens when you cap out on whatever new system gets added? You end up exactly where you are now.

The problem isn't the lack of progression. The problem is people being capped and wanting more. There's no way to fix that.

Personally I still think more options is better than what we have currently. I would like to see variety in character growth that does not 100% revolve around your gear ilvl myself.

I agree that having everything capped is a major root of the problem but more options still couldn't hurt!

[Erudito]

Character progression? That only happens when there are levels, skills and abilities to learn and master.

No, what we have in this game is small character progression until you hit max level with the jobs you care about and then you move to the nonsensical thing called gear progression.

Gear progression in itself is horrible, for gear is only raw stats and looks. No special abilities, not added bonuses and are outright replaced every 3-6 months. And, get this, you can only do gear progression for one combat job. ONE! In a game that lets you be all of them! You would figure they would make it possible to gear up 3 of them but nope, just one.

True, there are ways to gear up 2 jobs at once, but that would require raiding and I flat out refuse to do any sort of gearing where RNG is involved.

If the gear in question does not have glamour value, then exposing yourself to the RNG behind some gear makes no sense as the gear will be replaced before long.

Sorry if that sounded rather bad, but this patch has left me somewhat salty.

[Kaurie]

Didn't see the 2nd one because it's an older thread and currently on page 4.. I don't like how the 1st one you linked makes Yoshi out to be a bad guy.

I'm just looking for other people's suggestions or thoughts, what difference does it make how many threads there are?

Yoshi P said we're a quiet minority in his recent interview so this is my attempt to make some of us heard.

Ah I see, yeah I took part in the 1st one but barely read the 2nd one - I didn't like the initial post of the 2nd one as much either.

I encourage you to read through the 1st one though, there was a lot of good dialogue imo.

[Duelle]

Honestly, as much as I hate to say this, I think we need to look to WoW again.

Blizzard is (in)famous for taking ideas from other games and then improving on them to make them their own. The new Legion expansion has taken relic weapons from FFXIV and turned them into a new character progression system. There are multiple relics per class, unique stories for each, and the weapon can be levelled, upgraded and enhanced as a new form of post-cap character progression. If SE wants a guide for what to do then they should look at how much better Blizzard is now doing relic weapons as that system alone would likely satisfy most of the players who currently feel like progression stagnates at the cap.

My main point though is that the game needs a form of endgame progression that is NOT based on simply getting new equipment.

Couple of things.

The WoW artifact weapon is firstly the only weapon you get for the whole of the Legion expansion. What would normally be weapon drops are instead relics that can be attached to the weapon to enhance certain trait nodes on the weapon (for example, my prot warrior has a relic that boosts one of the artifact traits that increase my armor rating, another that boosts the trait that increases the damage one of my abilities deals).

Secondly, for story reasons you're limited to that weapon, and the progression model of the expansion is entirely designed around the artifact weapon. This is why at the end of major questlines you get an item that grants artifact power (which you have to spend to level your weapon), and why there are several ways to gain artifact power (daily reward for queuing for a random dungeon, sending followers on specific missions, with a very low drop rate off world mobs). The one nice thing is that characters all over the Legion zones recognize you as the wielder of an artifact weapon.

Thirdly, artifact power is still a grind. Once you hit a certain point, the amount of AP you need to level a weapon drastically goes up. The only positive here is that the systems in place don't pressure you too much (like, say, people's obsession in FFXI over exp/hour). You are, however, sort of forced to participate in max-level world content as a means to getting artifact power (either through drops, world quest rewards, or using the order hall resources to get AP).

Fourthly, from the perspective of class design, artifacts have turned out to be a bunch of stuff classes themselves used to have moved on to the weapon. It'd be like if SE decided to remove the Enhanced Sentinel and Enhanced Rampart traits and stuck them on the weapon.