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  1. #81
    Player
    Alberel's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    Gridania
    Posts
    1,852
    Character
    Alberel Lindurst
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 70
    So rather than cover what actually happened I'm gonna dive straight into extrapolations from the new information.

    MSQ

    If the void is actually the thirteenth shard then does this mean Atomos can actually be considered a primal after all now? Everything that lives in the void is technically the same as in any other parallel world, just corrupted with darkness. Now that both Bahamut and Alexander have had Primes and Atomos had a Prime crystal core in WoD can we say that voidsent have primals of their own? I raised this theory back when we first found Atomos Prime but everyone argued that he was just a voidsent...

    I'm also tempted to argue that Unukulhai's story about Warriors of Light developing a thirst for aether and transforming into monsters is actually how the thirteenth world fell. He basically explained how the first voidsent were born. This even gives rise to the possibility that the rulers of the Void actually are these warriors.

    I'd also like to touch on Ga Bu's summoning of Titan. I know the obvious interpretation of what happened is that the primal took on aspects of the summoner's mental state at the moment of summoning. I can't help but notice, however, that Ga Bu fell unconscious at the precise moment Titan appeared. Titan then proceeded to talk literally as if he were Ga Bu himself. The kobold also awoke immediately after we defeated the primal... Did we perhaps bear witness to a new form of summoning in which the summoner takes direct control of the primal? Could this be a step towards that now-mythical FC summoning system? Yoshi always said he was waiting for a story excuse to allow us to do it...

    The revelations from this patch have far-reaching implications for everything we know about the cosmology of FFXIV though. I have a feeling we may need to go back and revisit a LOT of old theories with this new information.

    If I were to actually highlight my favourite moment this patch though it would be the quiet moment with Alisaie in the Floating City. The story in this game often rushes character development but this patch had several amazing quiet moments dedicated solely to building on the likes of Alisaie, Aymeric and even the WoL themself. I feel more invested in the characters now than I ever have before. I'm thoroughly impressed by the quality of the storytelling in this patch and I hope this is setting the bar for the expansion.
    (6)
    Last edited by Alberel; 09-30-2016 at 10:31 PM.

  2. #82
    Player
    SilverArrow20XX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    128
    Character
    Mutekimaru Godhand
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post

    Triad + MSQ
    Sophia's plan confuses the Meracydia timeline for me. She was captured before Bahamut, as were all the Triad, since they were house in proto-Dalamuds, right? Yet she had intended to use Bahamut to smite the Ascians? I always assumed the capturing of Bahamut was Allag's ultimate victory in Meracydia. Did she intend to raze Allag with the wyrm Bahamut or the Primal? Augh, I can't log in to rewatch cutscenes and I'm left in the lurch
    Triad + MSQ

    Not necessarily. Bahamut could have also been housed in a proto Dalamud before the final Dalamud design was finalized, and then simply been transferred or had his pall reoutfitted into the final version.
    (0)

  3. #83
    Player
    DreamAngel-Ren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    576
    Character
    Ren Kurosaki
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalien View Post
    "Light, Dark, it doesn't matter. What matters is how you choose to use them."


    Totally not related to lore, but we seriously need the option to redo these solo instances... Heavensward has really improved them IMO, I've enjoyed all of them so far, it's such a shame that we can't easily go back to them...
    The Light/Darkness quote had me wondering too, do we have to start balancing our acts in order to prevent our world from being destroyed? It's kinda scary yet interesting thinking about it. So far we are heading down that same path that the WoD fell into and look what happened. Makes me wonder how SE is going to pull this one off in the storyline.


    As for the solo instances, I agree; I too wish they had a thing were we can replay them again.
    (1)
    Last edited by DreamAngel-Ren; 10-01-2016 at 12:35 AM.
    [super inactive on this Forum LOL]

  4. #84
    Player
    Belhi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    3,016
    Character
    J'talhdi Belhi
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 90
    So with the Triad:

    Most of this was minor details but assuming Elidibus is Unukalhai's master, the comments in the book next to our little white maybe mini-ascian kind of point to a mission statement that seems strange to me. Why does Elidibus want balance so much? Why is an unbalanced world useless to his master? Why does that seem so dramatically different from what we have gotten from the other Ascians?

    Balance is a core thing and from this patch it seems a necessity we need to find a way to achieve. However perhaps part of the lesson of Sophia is the existence of false balance or perhaps achieving balance can be done in different ways.

    Again, assuming this is Elidibus, I think we are a long way from knowing better.
    (2)

  5. #85
    Player PArcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,580
    Character
    Kytre Ashaer
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 70
    Hmm...

    if it is Papalymo narrating, that does change things a little for me. I'm still unsure of his motives and all (really think we should be holding onto the staff), but I just really doubt that SE would have an antagonist/betrayer/etc narrating our story.


    Stupid character limit
    (0)

  6. #86
    Player
    Aurelle_Delacroix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    80
    Character
    Aurelle Delacroix
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by SilverArrow20XX View Post
    Triad + MSQ

    Not necessarily. Bahamut could have also been housed in a proto Dalamud before the final Dalamud design was finalized, and then simply been transferred or had his pall reoutfitted into the final version.
    Triad Stuff

    I think that those 4 primals, Sephirot, Sophia, Zurvan, and Bahamut would all likely be summoned generally close to one another considering all four were summoned in response to the Allag advance on Meracydia. So perhaps Sophia wanted to obliterate Allag from within and use that as a beacon to call upon the Bahamut primal to her and help destroy Allag even more.

    Point being, I think after the initial manipulation of letting herself get caught and her containment bay tampered with to allow her release, she simply wanted to side with Bahamut to help destroy Allag. So likely he was the only one left standing after the triad was captured one by one.
    (1)

  7. #87
    Player
    Nalien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    3,784
    Character
    Taisai Jin
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 64
    On balance;
    So... A world consumed by Light just ceases, while a world consumed by Darkness... Thrives? I mean, not in an ideal sense, but the Void has some structures, and we have Voidsent aplenty coming into our world since as early as the Allagan Empire... That implies a very different situation to what happened to the First world, which also seemed to be happening rapidly... The implications of that have me smiling, given I've long since speculated that the main issue the Ascians have with Hydaelyn is that she allows death... A world consumed in Light dies, because Light represents Death... Meanwhile a world consumed by Darkness ends up being full of nigh-immortal monsters, because Darkness represents Life... I'm almost certain this is where the metaphysical plot is going... We're going to get a very Chains of Promathia ending, in which we're not just Hydaelyns children, we're Zodiarks too... When there was balance, there was death, and Zodiark didn't want his children to die, so he sought power over Hydaelyn to prevent death... Hydaelyn however, understands that there can't really be life without death... You just end up creating monsters with immortality, see; The Void. If that's not what started all this, I'll eat my race Chocobo. That would also improve my opinion of the Warriors of Darkness, given my previous speculation was that they turned against Hydaelyn because "death is bad!", but what we actually got? They were very accepting of their death. A welcome surprise... Still doesn't excuse their overly aggressive behavior... Honestly... If I were in their shoes, I'd find my counterpart and warn them, not be a condescending jerk about it... Any doubt towards their tale at Xelphatol would be justified given their past aggressions... I guess Urianger is partly to blame for that though...

    Wish we got more information out of Derplander, it's not really clear how their victories manifested a Flood of Light... Did they just keep winning and powering up Hydaelyn to the point where she was too powerful? See, this is what has me thinking the Primals are required, and could make easy justification for Free Company Summonings... Hydaelyn needs to be drained, else she grows powerful and causes a Flood of Light... If we're to keep winning, to keep growing strong with our Blessing, we'll just do the same thing... To counter that, we need to drain our Blessing the only way we know how; Summon Primals. "Light, Darkness, it doesn't matter. What matters is how you choose to use them", give me Campaign style content and let me throw Ifrit at it! Seriously Yoshida, this would make an amazing addition to the game... Do it... I think we've got our lore justification, now we just need the gameplay one, and having a Free Company roll up to a losing battle, only to turn the tables with a Primal... That's the kind of content all MMOs should have! It's just epic, no other way to describe it...

    Oh, and GODS DAMMIT MINFILIA! You left without finishing your sentence, then you return and don't finish it! What were we meant to seek? Just to tie up that loose end, I'm going to say the Warriors of Darkness, but dammit... Oh, and thanks for warning us that you gave Elidiboo the Eyes of Nidhogg, Derplander...
    (4)
    Last edited by Nalien; 10-01-2016 at 03:49 AM.

  8. #88
    Player
    Naria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,137
    Character
    Naria Starcatcher
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Nalien View Post
    <snip>
    Well that would put a different twist on the Ascians calling us "Bringer of Light" wouldn't it?
    (1)

  9. #89
    Player
    Anonymoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    5,043
    Character
    Anony Moose
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    UPDATES ON MSQ FROM A CLOSER READING:


    The Worlds
    The expulsion of Zodiark caused spatiotemporal rifts in the universe, fanning out 13 reflections of the Source.

    The Rejoining
    The destruction of a reflected world causes all Life seeded there to revert to aether and return to the Source.

    The Importance of Equilibrium
    If a reflected world becomes consumed by Light or Darkness, that aether is destroyed by the flood.
    Zodiark wants the flow of aether from the Ardor to be his own; Equilibrium cannot be lost before the Rejoining.

    The Flood of Light
    Neither Hydaelyn nor Zodiark can directly control the balance of Light and Darkness; they are dependent on their chosen and cannot directly course-correct the outcomes of their decisions any better than they could have done without them in the first place.

    Urianger's Plan
    Urianger learned of two independent situations and brought them together. He'd been appraised of Minfilia's being taken unto the Lifestream and assumed that she had been given a sliver of Hydaelyn's strength. He'd also been informed by the Ascians of the true state of the cosmos, and through them became aware of the plight of the First World. He conspired to follow his interpretation of Louisoix's ideals.

    To save as many as possible at the lowest cost, he manipulated Elidibus, the Warriors of Darkness, the Scions of the Seventh Dawn (and via those factions the remnants of the Ivy's network and even the Griffin) to bring a multitude of Crystals of Light to a single location. In doing so, he traded their power to Hydaelyn in exchange for Minfilia being restored and made Emissary. Urianger knew that Hydaelyn, having heard the prayers and suffering of the children of the First, would dispatch her to become their salvation. He knew that freeing Minfilia would likely cause her to never be able to return to us. (Correctly) assuming that Minfilia would consent were she given the choice, he made it for her, though not even he thinks he deserves forgiveness for it.

    The Emissaries
    Elidibus and Minfilia are now roughly the same, Emissary of ["The One True God" / "The Will of the Star"]

    The War
    Incidentally, Urianger sums up the war best in his final line at the Rising Stones. The Ascians view the state of things as a cosmological aberration. The thirteen reflections should be reunited and the universe made whole. Elidibus came to Urianger because he believed him to be a man of raw reason. The Truth would overcome all other considerations, especially if presented it as a black and white scenario.

    What he didn't expect was that Urianger already knows otherwise. Or perhaps it is better to say that he has faith otherwise. Who in this war wants the worlds to be rejoined for the sake of that alone? None. The Warrior of Light as proven time and time again: there is always another way. History will not belong to the Dark's greed or the Light's fear; Life will not be suffered to fail.

    The reins of history belong to man, now, and only one force (so far) seems to care anything about our plight.
    (13)
    Last edited by Anonymoose; 10-01-2016 at 07:04 AM.

  10. #90
    Player
    ADVSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    2,397
    Character
    Advent Shadowsoul
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    so if the rejoining occurs, will we get more than 6 new zones to explore? cause im all for it if so
    (1)

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