Shield changes

[Estellios]

They didn't mention casters losing the abilities to wear shields, just that the shield abilities are going to become Gladiator skills.

[TinnySnips]

I don't think the shield skills that currently exist are very likely to make the cut at any rate. If they do make it then it won't matter much anyway as they are most beneficial to Gladiator.

[Alhanelem]

Good. The current shield skills were designed with the gladiator in mind, anyway. They're not mage skills at all.

They aren't <insert class here> skills. They were for anyone who could carry a shield.

You have no right to impose your playstyle on others.
Shields and their skills are extremely valuable for soloing. This is NOT a good thing.
I fully agree that some classes need more "identity" but don't agree that our freedom to choose should be completely eliminated.

One thing you don't seem to realize is that other classes in the future may also use one-handed weapons. Why should any such class have to level up gladiator to be able to use those skills? In FFXI many jobs (including some mages) could use shields. I realize that this isn't changing who can equip shields, but in FFXI, nobody had to level up Paladin to gain benefit from a shield on another job.

This is going to severely diminish solo survivability for THM/CON. I was also hoping sometime in the future that shield would become more independent and actually become a class of its own, using a shield as the primary weapon. That idea's basically a non-possibility now.

*IF* shields are wieldable by any 1 handed class, maybe Glad will get traits that greatly increase block rate and defense.

They already had better block rates/effectiveness because they had better stats for it. It doesn't mean it wasn't useful to anyone else.

People need to get this idea that mages can't do this or can't do that out of their head. The final fantasy universe has had several magical classes throughout its history that could use weapons and armor.

[Rentahamster]

They aren't <insert class here> skills. They were for anyone who could carry a shield.

Yes, I know that's how they worked mechanically, but they were purely tanking skills. The only class that is a tank class and can use shields is gladiator. Yes, if you solo as a mage shield skills came in handy, but that's not what they're supposed to be fore.

You have no right to impose your playstyle on others.
Shields and their skills are extremely valuable for soloing.

I used them for soloing mage too, but that doesn't mean that I don't see how out of place it is for a mage to be using those skills.

One thing you don't seem to realize is that other classes in the future may also use one-handed weapons. Why should any such class have to level up gladiator to be able to use those skills?

Every class that can use a shield will get its own class-specific shield skills. You'd only level up gladiator if you wanted those specific gladiator skills, for whatever reason. And there's no reason why 2 different classes can share the same skills, either.

[Alhanelem]

Every class that can use a shield will get its own class-specific shield skills.

You don't know that, and it definitely doesn't apply to the current classes that can use a shield.

They're not removing shields from CON/THM being able to equip them, but they're not getting their own class-specific shield skills. The'yre simply forcing us to level up gladiator if we want to use any of them, just like everyone's already forced to do it for Sentinel

I don't see how out of place it is for a mage to be using those skills.

there is nothing "out of place" about it. It's not like we could use tower shields and heavy armor- we are limited to bucklers, which are small and non-cumbersome. Even a peasant could use one.

but they were purely tanking skills.

Shield bash is not a "tanking skill", and is one of the most useful skills you gain from using a shield. It can stop many dangerous actions that you would have no other way of stopping. And frankly, when you're soloing, you ARE "tanking." and "tanking" skills are valuable.

No one expects a CON/THM to be able to use those skills in a serious setting, but they are there for convenience and greatly help two classes that otherwise often have a difficult time soloing.

but that's not what they're supposed to be fore.

Who are you to decide what stuff is and isn't supposed to be for? If you don't like it, you don't have to use it. It is in no way game breaking for a THM to solo with a shield. I'm not going to be up in Ifrit's face trying to block his attacks- Every situation is different and the good players are the ones who use all the tools at their disposal in the appropriate places and times.

All I see here are closed-minded comments about how "mages" "should" be. Final Fantasy has always been the creative one, doing things with "mages" that the average person doesn't expect. Why does every 'mage' have to be a weak old man with a cane, staying as far away from danger as possible? Give us our spellblades, our fencing red mages, and all that good stuff, instead of shying away from it and anyone who wants to play like that.

Keep in mind you can only use 10 cross class abilities as well... and block rate currently is trash (which hopefully gets some love). Casters will probably be using most of there cross class for the opposite caster.

That's how it's going to be for me; the only skills i'd be using would be shield bash and maybe aegis boon (but with the crap blockrates we have right now, it's not as good as it used to be)

[Fleur]

So wait, after this is implemented, I will lose all of my shield abilities that I gained from lvl 25-50 sentinel, because my gladiator is only lvl 24? If I am reading this right, I am not a happy camper. Some of those shield skills are obviously not for casters, like War Drum (lol), but others are pretty darn useful for solo'ing.

Ah well, I guess we'll just have to see how it works out. I'd be happy with casters getting different shield skills than tanks.

[Alhanelem]

So wait, after this is implemented, I will lose all of my shield abilities that I gained from lvl 25-50 sentinel, because my gladiator is only lvl 24?

Well, we don't know what rank gladiator will learn them. It could be different from what it is now- but I really wonder how tehy're going to set it up, because most classes learn something every other level right now, and it's going to be every 5 levels after this update. Yes, some skills will be removed (e.g. multiple tiers of some spells and abilities) but that's still too many skills for them to be learned in longer intervals.

Shields were a handy tool for THM/CONs to have if they felt they wanted to use it when they were soloing (and it was also a good way to boost up the shield skill, prior to its planned removal...). Considering you gave up a small bit of damage in order to use one, it's only worth using if you're soloing and using the skills that come with it. It didn't harm anyone for these classes to equip the shield skills.

However, my concern isn't just for these two classes. It's for any future class that might be able to use a shield. Should they really be forced to level up a class they might not otherwise want to play just to be able to get the full use out of their equipment?

[kwestro]

i think hes referring to the fact that mages can carry shields and want the abilities go with them

my bad. I misunderstood.

[Estellios]

However, my concern isn't just for these two classes. It's for any future class that might be able to use a shield. Should they really be forced to level up a class they might not otherwise want to play just to be able to get the full use out of their equipment?

If defense and damage mitigation is something the class needs they would probably learn their own skills for use with a shield. Just think of the current abilities as Gladiator abilities that require a shield equipped.

[Orophin]

In FFXI many jobs (including some mages) could use shields. I realize that this isn't changing who can equip shields, but in FFXI, nobody had to level up Paladin to gain benefit from a shield on another job.

Said jobs couldn't use abilities such as Shield Bash either.