Shield changes

[TinnySnips]

I think the point is kinda being missed here. There will be no shield skills, period. Gladiator may gain a few of the abilities that currently belong to shield, but there will only be 15 gladiator abilities at level 50, so I can't see those shield skills making the cut unless they are very beneficial to the Gladiator's role. Even if Gladiator inherits every ability from shield, it's still not a shield ability. It will be a gladiator ability.

You can argue that you should get a return on your investment in leveling shield, but very few people specifically leveled shield. It's always been a silly tacked on class, and it levels as you level another class. Very few people leveled shield. Most people ended up with shield leveled as a side effect.

Every class will be losing some skills that are situationally useful. If you are worried about losing out on abilities that you currently possess, then Shield is probably the least of your concerns.

[Alhanelem]

I think the point is kinda being missed here. There will be no shield skills, period. Gladiator may gain a few of the abilities that currently belong to shield, but there will only be 15 gladiator abilities at level 50, so I can't see those shield skills making the cut unless they are very beneficial to the Gladiator's role. Even if Gladiator inherits every ability from shield, it's still not a shield ability. It will be a gladiator ability.

You can argue that you should get a return on your investment in leveling shield, but very few people specifically leveled shield. It's always been a silly tacked on class, and it levels as you level another class. Very few people leveled shield. Most people ended up with shield leveled as a side effect.

Every class will be losing some skills that are situationally useful. If you are worried about losing out on abilities that you currently possess, then Shield is probably the least of your concerns.

That's another factor i've forgotten about. They can't use the current skill learning setup without sacrificing some skills or making multiple skills learned per level.

I'm sure we'll be able to sub skills from gladiator, but the point is, we didn't have to do that before.

As long as the appropriate skills are still available through gladiator, I can't complain TOO much, as it's akin to leveling a subjob, but still, I can't say I like this chaing.

[HoolieWho]

They said they want to streamline the armory system, which I think is a good thing. Having class skills from both main hand and off hand items, while certainly possible, would not be as streamlined.

Now Gladiator will have class skills that involve use of a shield. Probably similar to the existing shield skills, but maybe they will get overhauled.

If the developers want mages to use shields for more than stat placeholders, then they can assign special shield skills to the mage classes. Maybe stoneskin will get a buff if a shield is equipped.

If you want to be a mage who uses a shield as a tanking aid, then you should be required to level gladiator for the cross-class skills if any are made available.

[PSxpert2011]

I'm just helping in making a stand to irrelevant change to the shield skill. There's probably more issues to address but I'm starting here.

You got a problem with that? Too bad, at least I'm making a stand to the majority. Having a option to many is not going to hurt the few. Taking away choices will hurt us all leading to more ridiculous alterations to the game.

If SE wants to turn this into another FFXI clone, why waist my time and money being here??

If you think mages with a single handed weapon cant wear armor and hold a shield with high enough shield skill, the pessimist is you my friend, very bias and closed minded. You don't make any sense!

[Cycloptichorn]

I'm happy about this change, because the concept of mages carrying shields flies in the face of pretty much all lore and logic. It never made much sense.

[Mishakai]

What??? No, no no nononononono. Don't do this. Now anyone (current and future classes) who use a 1h weapon will have to level gladiator to learn any shield skills.

Shield isn't something that SHOULD be bound to any class in particular.

I can make the exact same argument about having to level cnj or thm for spells on my gladiator. Or having to level marauder for defender, or pugilist for second wind. Personally I like the change and am looking forward to seeing it in action.

[Alhanelem]

I can make the exact same argument about having to level cnj or thm for spells on my gladiator. Or having to level marauder for defender, or pugilist for second wind. Personally I like the change and am looking forward to seeing it in action.

I should probably clarify: I do not like this change not directly because of having to level up another class to gain skills, but more directly because shield was essentially its own sub-class, and now they're basically just getting rid of it. I was hoping for the day when we'd be able to set it as a main class, but instead it's being removed and its skills being offloaded to another class. It seems like an awfully quick fix to a perceived problem (not actual problem) to the developers.

Uhm, what shield skills are so damned critical that you can't survive without them?

They aren't "So damned critical." They're very nice to have. Shield bash gives me an extra tool to deal with some special attacks, on top of being a way to spend the TP I recieve (mostly from getting hit). Aegis boon is an amazing survival skill when combined with Punishing Barbs (admittedly, this combo used to be ridiculously powerful- it's been drastically nerved but it's still useful) and shield bash II just takes that a step further.

No, you don't set all of the shieldskills, usually just one or both of those two.

Mages shouldn't be in melee range anyway.

You have no choice in the matter when you're soloing. The enemy will be in your face most of the time. Bind doesn't help because basically every enemy has a ranged attack so they can kick your butt from a distance. Gravity doesn't help for the same reason.

Even if we did have a choice, this is once again the closed-minded, think-inside-the-box perspective that users of magic MUST be frail old men with canes that can never take a hit. There are many "mage" jobs in Final Fantasy that blur this line. Up until now, these classes could blur this line if they chose to. You do not make the rules as to what mages can and cannot be.

The fact of the matter is, this is only a skills change and not an equipment change. DoMs can still equip shields and those shields can still have stats. If they never wanted us to be able to use a shield, they would have made all shields DoW only. All this means is the destruction of what could possibly have been a real class in the future, and an inconvinence to any DoMs who currently have these skills set but will find them gone when they log in after the update.

[Kaizlu]

What's the matter? As far as I recall everyone was leveling up GLA to get Sentinel anyways.

[PSxpert2011]

You know, I didn't wast my time reading everything here but I'm sure there's controversy by any means. SE, you still MAKING A BIG %$$#! mistake.

Shield skill shouldn't be bound to any class and everyone plays their class differently no matter what individuals think. HELL, if a mage feel like he should carry a shield so be it. I might want to be a mage some day, at-least I have my shield skilled up, you don't have the right to patronize me. THE END.

[Cycloptichorn]

HELL, if a mage feel like he should carry a shield so be it.

Hmm, I don't think this is a logical argument. A mage shouldn't be allowed to carry a shield for the same reason they aren't allowed to wear plate armor - it runs against all known lore in practically every game or story which concerns such things. It's a trade-off for their bad-ass powers. Not only that, but it takes a tremendous amount of physical strength to use a shield effectively in battle, and mages aren't typically known for their strength.

I might want to be a mage some day, at-least I have my shield skilled up, you don't have the right to patronize me.

Oh, I'm quite sure that we/they do.