Paladin Change(s)

[Shurrikhan]

At the moment, Sword Oath has higher contribution the lower your weapon delay is, because it hits for the same amount no matter how long your attack takes. This should make all swords have the same Sword Oath % contribution.

Paladin DPS already seemed fine aside from that one massive oversight though. Just standardizing it to 25*weapon_delay potency would have been fine (a 2-second delay sword then has the base number, decreased below and increased above for the same DPS).

[AegisKiddo]

Once enmity is secured (Fairly easy with CoS and Shield Swipe), a PLD in ShO will have no issue keeping enmity without doing any RoH combo.

Clemency is more easy to use as an OT

Whilst I applaud your reasoning in the defence of PLD's plethora of tools, I don't believe you have read my post thoroughly, please allow me to elaborate further. I was referring to a OT PLD using 'Royal authority', which gains increased 'enmity', against a lets say a MT DRK, who has turned Grit off.

Any tank watches the argo table, a PLD doing what he should be doing pushes it higher than the other two tanks in this scenario, thus more powerslashes/butchersblock need be required; this is a less dps party gain upon MTs enmity combo execution. Also using clemency as a ot is a waste of a gcd altogether, which is better spent on DPSing, if heals need required I'm sure that little portion that a pld clemency can produce can be covered by Eos

[Lyth]

Whilst raiding, any OT PLD will run into a numeral problems of untold proportions, such as, why does one of their highest dps combos(Royal Authority) enforce enmity, whilst WAR/DRK have the "privilege" of having a dps combo that does not?

This isn't really correct. The highest potency combo on WAR is BB, their enmity combo. It generates significantly more enmity than SB does in PLD's RA combo.

I don't see how you can design this both ways. When you're actively tanking, you want your dps moves to also generate enmity. When you're not, you want to generate less enmity using the same moves. PLD strikes the best balance between these two, without running into any significant issues generating or accidentally taking aggro.

Why does SE think increasing PLD's potency in every major patch is the way to go?

PLD has some of the most powerful utility and mitigation moves in the game. The narrower the dps difference between the tanks, the more likely that your raid group will have incentive to take advantage of this. They're trying to strike a balance between PLD/WAR and DRK/WAR comps. It's a bit late in the expansion cycle for anything more complex.

[Reynhart]

I was referring to a OT PLD using 'Royal authority', which gains increased 'enmity', against a lets say a MT DRK, who has turned Grit off.

Savage Blade was not changed with an OT perspective.
But, for the record, a WAR will have much stealing enmity issue, considering that their most powerful combo is BB with a far higher enmity multiplier. If you steal aggro with GB > RA > RA, it means your MT is doing somethin wrong...and will probably lose aggro to one of the DPS.

Any tank watches the agro table, a PLD doing what he should be doing pushes it higher than the other two tanks in this scenario, thus more powerslashes/butchersblock need be required; this is a less dps party gain upon MTs enmity combo execution.

See above, WAR pushes it more with BB

Also using clemency as a ot is a waste of a gcd altogether, which is better spent on DPSing, if heals need required I'm sure that little portion that a pld clemency can produce can be covered by Eos

No, it's not a "waste". DPS is not the only thing that matters in this game. A well timed Clemency can save someone.

[AegisKiddo]

This isn't really correct. The highest potency combo on WAR is BB, their enmity combo. It generates significantly more enmity than SB does in PLD's RA combo.

I've had many discussions and testing, storm's eye over and over is a dps gain over butchers, since you can keep up both fracture and eye without either falling off, I'm sure you know just because butchers has a higher potency than eye doesn't mean it's a gain this is pretty fundamental. But I believe this can be further debated elsewhere, not on a pld change thread

[Fernosaur]

WAIT

So the sword delay change means it's just a measure to keep the new Sword Oath bonus balanced among different weapons?

I thought it would finally mean a lower weapon delay weapon would be more powerful , ala SpSpd and DoTs.

So I guess this change will be somewhat minimal, though it's still very welcome, in any case. I wonder what the amount of GCDs equalling a damage gain from SwO is after this change.

[Reynhart]

I've had many discussions and testing, storm's eye over and over is a dps gain over butchers, since you can keep up both fracture and eye without either falling off, I'm sure you know just because butchers has a higher potency than eye doesn't mean it's a gain this is pretty fundamental. But I believe this can be further debated elsewhere, not on a pld change thread

I'd like to see real test numbers to back up this claim.
If it's a true, it's a nice bit of information.

However, my raw testing doesn't point towards that way.

[aleph_null]

snip

You can keep 100% eye uptime with fracture and fell cleaves without skipping block combo. There are few things to watch out though, for example:

If the last combo before you use berserk for triple cleave is block combo, you should do 2x eye combo during berserk, otherwise you'll drop eye debuff due to pacification (unless you have a brd);

If you do a block combo and 2 cleaves then you should skip fracture until you reapply eye unless you have very high sks since you can at most insert 5 gcds between each eye combo with average sks. So doing "SE combo > BB combo > frac > 2x cleave > SE combo" is bad unless you have high sks or external boost (card/fairy), you should do "SE combo > BB combo > 2x cleave > SE combo > frac" instead.

tl;dr there are times when repeating eye combo is necessary to maintain eye debuff uptime but most of the time you can slip in block combo too for more dps.

[SpookyGhost]

I've had many discussions and testing, storm's eye over and over is a dps gain over butchers, since you can keep up both fracture and eye without either falling off, I'm sure you know just because butchers has a higher potency than eye doesn't mean it's a gain this is pretty fundamental. But I believe this can be further debated elsewhere, not on a pld change thread

It is true that you should 2x Eye if you're going to 2x FC + Fracture after the first Eye (IE s/t like this http://ffxivrotations.com/adl) but if you're in a situation where you're just applying Fracture and doing 1x FC then Eye won't actually drop. It's certainly safer to just Eye on repeat (unless you're the MT in which case you might as well BB whenever you can actually do it), but that doesn't mean BB isn't literally a DPS gain as long as Eye doesn't fall off and you can apply Fracture (both of which you can @ 1 of each). So realistically the only places where you can't touch BB are in your Berserk window and with the 50s 3x FC opener you technically can BB by putting Fracture at the end, but that loses you IR crit buff and also would give you a lot of threat so not really worth it (unless you're MT).

There is the argument to be made that using BB enough will cause your PLD/DRK to need to use their threat combo and completely negate the potency you gained from BBing, but your BBs open up a bit with a NIN in the party. On top of this the optimal opener is to have WAR pull and get Vengeance ticks under Berserk which will probably result in you wanting to BB in your opener even if it isn't optimal for Fracture usage.

Basically you're really not losing a lot if you stick to just spamming SE to infinity and beyond, but there's certainly a time and place to use BB. Then again no real point in being this min/max when Savage is going to be below Midas in terms of DPS checks lol

[Hierro]

doing "SE combo > BB combo > frac > 2x cleave > SE combo" is bad unless you have high sks or external boost (card/fairy), you should do "SE combo > BB combo > 2x cleave > SE combo > frac" instead.

Say what? Using frac before 2x cleave means it gets to benefit from 5 stacks and IR.