How is Ninja DPS endgame?

[Neela]

average on a stone puppet? yeah you are right than...

[Jonnycbad]

All DPS classes 'even out' in one way or another. Each role (Tank/DPS/Healer) has ratios that dictate the strengths/weaknesses of the job to promote diversity and variations in playstyle. I know this might be radical but instead of thinking jobs as their own thing, imagine there's only 3 jobs HEALER DPS and TANK, and imagine each job is a 'skill tree'. For example for 'Healer', WHM has highest potency cures, but no real shields other than Stoneskin which is weak and single target outside of a pre-battle AoE shield which is disabled during combat, this focuses on Regens and strong potency cures. SCH is a 'skill tree' devoted to shields and pet heals and leans more towards DPS, AST is a mix of both depending on their stance, which cannot change mid-combat.

As for DPS, imagine each DPS job is a 'skill tree'. MNK has highest direct damage from their own skills but contribute little to boosting the damage of the rest of your party, NIN has a few skills that drastically increase damage of the entire raid while their own personal skills are rather weak. DRG has high potency skills, but not as high as MNK, but also has one or two skills that buff the raid, but not to the degree of NIN. All in all, the end result is the same. Whereas a MNK let's say does 1000DPS, but doesn't boost the party by anything, vs DRG which does 850 DPS but its skills raise everyone else's DPS by 20, and NIN say does 750 DPS but boosts everyone's DPS by say 40. (These are fictional numbers and not accurate but used to illustrate a point). The net result is more or less the same, but the amount of DPS boosted by DRG and NIN is a bit difficult to separate and tie back into the DRG or NIN and they don't often get 'credit' for it, but the damage boost is there. So a MNK might rejoice at having the highest DPS in the raid, HOWEVER the amount of extra damage from everyone else that was granted from NIN or DRG's raid-boosting abilities, if they could be filtered out and added to NIN or DRG's personal DPS, might exceed MNK's.

[Jonnycbad]

Also NIN and DRG have options when needing to deal damage from afar while dodging mechanics. An example is Ravana EX, when you're doing the whole "Rose of Hate" mechanic. During this phase you need to run around the edge of the arena while pulling your tethers, a NIN or DRG could still use their Lv16 ranged ability to keep up DPS, whereas MNK doesn't have anything like it to keep contributing damage for those 10sec or so. Sure a MNK could circle in closer to Ravana and use their melee rotations but it's a bit more risky. There are other examples like Sephirot EX during the jump-rope wombo-combos in 2nd form, where you need to run out of range of his attacks and then back in and you lose about 1-2 GCDs, especially during the 'run out' part, whereas a NIN can still throw knives and the DRG can still use piercing talon.

[Krindor]

average on a stone puppet? yeah you are right than...

Average in the real fight, here's the statistics for you to view: https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/10

[FinaSel]

Ninja's DPS is sometimes called lowest in compared with other classes, but I often find myself above or equal to other DPS on enmity lists in A5, Weeping City, and expert roulette dungeons.
(I haven't gone beyond A5 as a ninja yet.)

If you play it well you can dish out a ton of DPS.
Your opening combination with Trick Attack is extremely powerful.
It's possible to fit Duality + Armor Crush, Dream within a dream, Mutilate, Shadow Fang, Kassatsu + Raiton, Jugulate, and Mug all within the 10 seconds Vulnerability Debuff. Within Internal Release and Blood for Blood on, this does a huge amount of damage in 10 seconds.


Being NIN also is very beneficial to a group, especially when you have an undergeared / unskilled tank or a DPS who doesn't care about enmity.
If you have a DPS who isn't watching their hate, you can use Smoke Screen to decrease their enmity.

If you have a tank who isn't generating enough enmity, you can use Shade Walker to help them out.

The only problem is that these skills have a relatively long cooldown, so you won't be able to use them every fight.

[Chubby13]

Out of the 3 melee NIN bring about the best raid utility in Trick Attack, when used at the right time coupled with Battle Litany, Foe's Requiem (w Battle Voice), a Balance Card/Fey Wind deals massive damage. Shadewalker has it uses, I personally found it very effective in A6S. Smokescreen as well has it's uses, such as using it on healers when adds spawn and they just used an AoE heal. Goad is extremely good for longer fights (still sadly NIN's cannot use it themselves )

A well played NIN can deal high dps and keep up with the others, although it is known for dealing the lowest out of the 3 melees since MNK is well known for being the highest, followed shortly by DRG.

In regards to your leveling I would say if you have a full group spam Palace of the Dead gives great exp... especially the first 10 floors.

[Jim_Berry]

Ninja's DPS is sometimes called lowest in compared with other classes, but I often find myself above or equal to other DPS on enmity lists

And this is the problem that I don't understand. When I start with Shade Walker, it put me at Number 6 or 7 on the list. After Trick Attack with Duality and Aeolian Edge (amongst other things), I get pushed up to Number 2 or 3 on the list for almost the rest of the battle. What I don't get is that when someone put the parse up, I'm still last of the other melee dps and maybe SMN/BLM.

One group said I was 1400. Of course, I was extra excited because I was used to doing 900-1000. But then, they said the MNK was about 1600. I was like, "How, when I was number 2 on the list the entire time?". Even if we lose the tank, the boss came at me. I'm beginning to simply ignore the numbers.

[Jim_Berry]

It's possible to fit Duality + Armor Crush, Dream within a dream, Mutilate, Shadow Fang, Kassatsu + Raiton, Jugulate, and Mug all within the 10 seconds Vulnerability Debuff. Within Internal Release and Blood for Blood on, this does a huge amount of damage in 10 seconds.

Did you mean Duality + Aeolian Edge?

I also found that hitting a buffed Trick Attack (Blood for Blood + Dancing Edge or Storm's Eye) pisses him off as well.

[Dzian]

Did you mean Duality + Aeolian Edge?

Depends on the circumstances. if you have prep time to maximise you're opener then yeah Aeolian edge works better as you can get huton cast 20 seconds before the pull.

If you've gone straight from trash into a bos or something for example chances are you'll be starting that boss fight with maybe 20 seconds on huton.
in this case using trick attack duality with armor crush (160pot) results in a loss of 40 potency over Aeolian edge(180pot). but the trade off is you can kassatsu ratiton (180pot) (total 160x2 + 180 = 500 potency)

if you trick attack duality Aeolian edge then you're probably gonna need to kassatsu huton to ensure it doesn't drop off. (total 180 x2 = 360 potency) 140 potency less than using duality with armor crush.

it depends largely on how much time you have on huton at the start of the fight

[Jim_Berry]

Depends on the circumstances. if you have prep time to maximise you're opener then yeah Aeolian edge works better as you can get huton cast 20 seconds before the pull.

If you've gone straight from trash into a bos or something for example chances are you'll be starting that boss fight with maybe 20 seconds on huton.
in this case using trick attack duality with armor crush (160pot) results in a loss of 40 potency over Aeolian edge(180pot). but the trade off is you can kassatsu ratiton (180pot) (total 160x2 + 180 = 500 potency)

if you trick attack duality Aeolian edge then you're probably gonna need to kassatsu huton to ensure it doesn't drop off. (total 180 x2 = 360 potency) 140 potency less than using duality with armor crush.

it depends largely on how much time you have on huton at the start of the fight

Thought so... Just needed clarification. Wasn't saying you were incorrect.

And since people don't do Ready Checks, my openers aren't opening anymore lol...