Thread: Feeling Underwhelmed with 3.4

Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

And rewards are useless if there's nothing for the players to use them for.

You don't understand direct cause and effect. Your statement is only true if 100% of the playerbase is clearing 100% of the content. Since that's definitely not true for Savage the rewards are not useless because players can definitely use any new rewards towards clearing Savage.

The problem with new content is that it has to have a difficultly in line with the quality of the rewards that it provides without trampling over the previous existing systems that are already in place.

Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

B ranks are still the same old punching bags they were, and daily bills are still the exact same thing. All that has changed is the rewards, not the content.

And both of those make a huge difference on whether people participated or not. When people were not doing it at all, it's not actual content that matters. Now that people are doing it, it is.

Hunts are about finding the mob first and foremost not how to kill them. B Ranks being solo friendly now makes it a unique system where players will fly around to search for them and shout out their positions to assist other people. It's no longer part of the massive train that A and S Ranks are. There's no vitriol to B Rank hunting that the rest of hunts have.

Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

This has been the same formula since the game has come out. What good are the rewards?

Do people still do Savage? yes
Do people still queue for roulettes? yes
Do people still do Hunts? yes
Do people still clear Primals? yes
Do people still dig up Treasure Maps? yes

Do people do Diadem? no
Do people do Triple Triad? no
Do people do Lord of Verminion? no
Do people do PVP? not really

Rewards are good as long as it incentivizes people to repeat/participate in a piece of content. The content doesn't have to be new.

Originally Posted by SendohJin

Do people still do Savage? yes
Do people still queue for roulettes? yes
Do people still do Hunts? yes
Do people still clear Primals? yes
Do people still dig up Treasure Maps? yes

Do people do Diadem? no
Do people do Triple Triad? no
Do people do Lord of Verminion? no
Do people do PVP? not really

Rewards are good as long as it incentivizes people to repeat/participate in a piece of content. The content doesn't have to be new.

So then they can put the best gear in the game into FATEs and that's a good thing, obviously, because, see? People are doing fates now!! Got it.

Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

So then they can put the best gear in the game into FATEs and that's a good thing, obviously, because, see? People are doing fates now!! Got it.

No, that's bad because people will ignore other parts of the game if FATEs is the best way to acquire the highest iLv gear. That is the very problem with the current itemization. Hunts did that when it was first released, people only wanted to do Hunts and nothing but Hunts. Diadem had that same problem on release too and people did it even though they hated it.

Originally Posted by SendohJin

No, that's bad because people will ignore other parts of the game if FATEs is the best way to acquire the highest iLv gear. That is the very problem with the current itemization. Hunts did that when it was first released, people only wanted to do Hunts and nothing but Hunts.

But by your very logic, we don't need other parts of the game. We just need people to do the content.

Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

So then they can put the best gear in the game into FATEs and that's a good thing, obviously, because, see? People are doing fates now!! Got it.

No. It doesn't have to be the best gear. It doesn't even have to be gear. It just needs to be something that people really want. Housing items, orchestrion rolls, mounts, pets, whatever. You'd be surprised how far people go to get a unique player title. In wow some people grinded reputation with opposing factions just to get 4 words above their heads.

Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

But by your very logic, we don't need other parts of the game. We just need people to do the content.

The content that is being mostly ignored yes, but you can't do that at the expense of making people ignore other content.

And I did not say we don't need new systems, but they can't add too many without a proper reward structure.

Originally Posted by SendohJin

The content that is being mostly ignored yes, but you can't do that at the expense of making people ignore other content.

And I did not say we don't need new systems, but they can't add too many without a proper reward structure.

And I think that before you make people do something, you should make the content actually good.

FATEs are their most used content and it's also, I'm pretty sure, the most hated content in the game. So I disagree that incentivizing people to do terrible content is a good thing. It's better to have good content with bad rewards than to have bad content with good rewards.

The problem, is making content last, without low drop rates, without stagnating your character growth, without becoming obsolete.

IE, impossible.

People get tired of running multitudes of dungeons, yet we are supposed to have something similar that lasts years? Tomes are evil, but how do we get gear otherwise? if it drops every time, then you finish gearing and have nothing to use that gear for. if it rarely drops, then you are just doing the same thing as getting tomes, only with no rewards 90% of the time. 10% drop rate, up to 8 people in the party want it. Would turn into the minions from dungeons all over, but with gear.

People always say open world dungeons would solve the problems, but how? You are still going to have to grind it out, just in a different way. It would essentially be open world diadem, but with mobs dropping keys for chests? something like that? and then 99% of the time, you get grade 6 dark matter.

Hooray.

Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

And I think that before you make people do something, you should make the content actually good.

You and everyone else, that's easier said than done. That's limited by development resources and deadlines.

Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

It's better to have good content with bad rewards than to have bad content with good rewards.

Neither of those are better, they are both bad for different reasons.