Co-Op Dungeons (for DoW/DoM and DoL)

[Jigg]

Having a 2nd optional party for DoL classes is where I was going as a work around to the "Stress" of having to have an off-balanced combat party. Simply, the DoW/DoM party would go in front of the DoL party (if there is one) and clear the area of monsters. This would then allow the DoL party to do their things (mine/harvest/fish rare items, find locations on a treasure map, clear blocked passages).

The dungeon would be perfectly doable without the DoL party, but would be enhanced by their presence by openning up otherwise blocked-off portions. Mind you this is catering to DoL not DoH...dungeon crafting is a bit of a stretch. Maybe the DoL's find special mats so that crafters are needed to create a key-item to go further into the dungeon the next time they enter?

[RemVye]

Sorry... but still a massive NO from this guy right here.

First, parties are limited to 8 people and alliances don't exist yet. So having "2" parties and one being "optional" is out of the question.

Second the instances thus far are time based. Having to wait for DoW/M to clear mobs, then have DoL/H gather/craft just creates a stop and go, wait then go effect. It would totally screw the pace of the dungeon. One group is going to be waiting at each "checkpoint".

Third... how would they enforce the policy that the second group has to be DoL/H... I would just bring 12 DoW/M who all have DoL/H leveled. Bomb through the killing portion, then return and gather/craft.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's my opinion this would be too annoying and complicated for implementation. If you don't trust my opinion, which chances are you won't, Yoshi said DoL/H are "side" hobbies basically and that you can't experience the full game playing as one.

[Jigg]

Sorry... but still a massive NO from this guy right here.

First, parties are limited to 8 people and alliances don't exist yet. So having "2" parties and one being "optional" is out of the question.

Second the instances thus far are time based. Having to wait for DoW/M to clear mobs, then have DoL/H gather/craft just creates a stop and go, wait then go effect. It would totally screw the pace of the dungeon. One group is going to be waiting at each "checkpoint".

Third... how would they enforce the policy that the second group has to be DoL/H... I would just bring 12 DoW/M who all have DoL/H leveled. Bomb through the killing portion, then return and gather/craft.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's my opinion this would be too annoying and complicated for implementation. If you don't trust my opinion, which chances are you won't, Yoshi said DoL/H are "side" hobbies basically and that you can't experience the full game playing as one.

Nah, I respect people's opinions, and you're right on not being able to enforce it really. However! With the way claiming now works, technically you can have any number of alliance members...20 parties if the system could handle it for example.

But yeah, the lack of class enforcement in dungeons would be a problem. However, having to change up from DoW/DoM to DoL to solve puzzles/clear obstructions to go deeper into a dungeon I don't see as a negative thing. What is annoying to some is entertaining for others.

[RemVye]

I had something nice written up.. then hit backspace and it refreshed my browser. Fail.


The short of it was...

I'm going to post /shout looking for DoW/M who have DoL/H maxed out for <instance>

instead of...

/shout Looking for DoL/H for <instance>

It would be more efficient to get DoW/M who have DoL/H leveled than to get someone who is strictly DoL/H. And that would turn into the 'unspoken requirement' which people will rage about, "I can't get into parties because xyz".

Among the other points that I already stated in my previous posts.

[Jigg]

True, and I hate the backspace failing...happens to me too.

Could be set up to recruit on more than 1 job, and if anything it would open the possibility for more players to join groups, rather than less because even if the DoW/DoM isn't ideal they may have the desired DoL at the required level.

[Nakiamiie]

It's "stressful" (maybe not the best word) because the DoW/M have to basically 'carry' you through the dungeon just so you can craft a few keys / items to advance to a boss that we again have to 'carry' you through.

It's "stressful" because DoL/H have to do nothing except for 4 minutes (if that) of crafting for 1-2 items. Watching people fight things and not actually participating would be completely boring.

You can switch class and fight the monsters too! You can switch class and participate in crafting/whatever too! You can make it so both fighters and crafters have to work at the same time (one battle, the other does what has to be done in crafting/gathering).
You do NOT have to be carried, that's the whole point. Armoury system. Let me say it again: armoury system.

Another note... why would I ever bring a DoL/H only player? I would just REQUIRE whoever was in the group to have DoL/H leveled so we could have 8 DoW/M and whoever we needed to switch to DoL/H to craft the one item.

That's exactly what I was talking about, sheesh.

It's more annoying than it's worth.

It's your point of view, you have no obligation to participate in that kind of dungeon then.

People b*tched about "needing" to have Sentinel for Ifrit... can you imagine the backlack if a new dungeon came out and they "needed" to have DoL/H to 50 so people would invite them?

It doesn't have to be to 50, and the sentinel thing is irrelevant. You are comparing a problem from a particular fight (intra-discipline content) with inter-discipline content.

[Tahlia]

It's still possible to create mixed content that includes DoH/DoL but it needs to be more inventive in order to keep them constantly active and be a vital part of a group. The game has already come up with ways these classes can be useful thanks to various ideas implemented in the class quests, however most were a one-time thing and never seen again.

[RemVye]

You did not even bother did you? You can switch class and fight the monsters too! You can switch class and participate in crafting/whatever too! You can make it so both fighters and crafters have to work at the same time (one battle, the other does what has to be done in crafting/gathering).
You do NOT have to be carried, that's the whole point. Armoury system. Let me say it again: armoury system.


That's exactly what I was talking about, sheesh.


It's your point of view, you have no obligation to participate in that kind of dungeon then.


It doesn't have to be to 50, and the sentinel thing is irrelevant. You are comparing a problem from a particular fight (intra-discipline content) with inter-discipline content.

**??What?? to the part I bolded

Except it's still annoying. I won't be the only one to think it's annoying. If i have to get naked, put my crafting stuff on, then get naked again, put my fighting stuff on and now have my cooldowns all maxed out I'm gonna be annoyed.

Doesn't matter what you say, Yoshi is against it. "We may try it once" and I can bet he said that with baited breath and hesitance.

Unless they also streamline changing classes and equipment this is going to just be annoying, my opinion.

The bigger picture here is this is supposed to be content for DoL/H, right? I'd have to say the majority of people don't like doing these things, but have spent time in them to progress there character. It's a huge assumption on my part, but I don't know a single person who "enjoys" crafting currently.

Anyway, so these people given the choice... A.) Complete an instance as battle class OR B.) Complete a dungeon as DoL/H class... most would pick A. So for the few people who actually main class as DoL/H, and don't enjoy battle classes for whatever reason... this content would almost be out of reach because - like I said before - if I were to look for people for this type of instance, I would choose someone who can fight and craft or just a crafter.

Also... at the point where they would actually implement this.. how many people won't have any crafting / gathering classes leveled? Or know several people who do? It just seems like wasted effort to put work into a DoL/H involved dungeon when a ton of the current player base has a lot of this stuff leveled.


How about a simple NPC who follows behind you and does all that stuff, and you protect him as he crafts, opens doors, gets stuff, etc.?

[Manafont]

Try reading the other discussions. CLOSE THIS PLEASE!

[RemVye]

It doesn't have to be to 50, and the sentinel thing is irrelevant. You are comparing a problem from a particular fight (intra-discipline content) with inter-discipline content.

Also the Ifrit argument is completely relevant if you read it in context to what I had posted.