Roles for Samurai, Red Mage, Dancer

[Nalien]

While we do need to keep tank jobs coming and the role interesting, I'm not sure what about Samurai would actually make it any more interesting than the current tank jobs. Red Mage or Dancer as a tank would be really weird to see, but could bring something different to the role.

I imagine most see it as a very counter-based tank, with an entire rotation built around the Sheltron/Shield Swipe/Reprisal mechanics tanks barely touch on currently... Personally I think Blue Mage is much more suited to that role, though Red Mage could easily fill it as well, if they go down the fencing route enough...

Ideally (and briefly), I'd like to see;

Tanks
Blue Mage - Counter-based tank.
Beast Master - Pet-based tank.

Healers
Dancer - TP/MP hybrid healer.
Chemist - TP based healer.

DPS
Samurai - ranged/melee hybrid, "true" ranged DPS, no shitty support aspects weighing down the damage potential.
Red Mage - TP/MP hybrid DPS.

Beyond that I think we start getting too much overlap with existing Jobs, and most of the more niche Jobs are already potentially rolled into existing ones and/or are too broken... Time Mage lives on in Astrologian, for example. Mystic Knight, just like with Final Fantasy XI, would be absorbed by Red Mage. Stuff like Barbarian or Viking have been rolled into Warrior. There are perhaps some Jobs I'm forgetting about, or just lack the imagination to adapt uniquely into XIV, but for now those are the Jobs I'd expect... I think it balances out quite nicely, we'd have three pet based Jobs for example, spread across all three roles... Red Mage/Dark Knight/Dancer all function as hybrids across the roles... Starts to fall apart from there, but you get the idea...

[Alacran]

While we do need to keep tank jobs coming and the role interesting, I'm not sure what about Samurai would actually make it any more interesting than the current tank jobs. Red Mage or Dancer as a tank would be really weird to see, but could bring something different to the role.

Honestly and with all respect, in my opinion a RDM Tank would simply look like a better dressed PLD... a single sword with white magic skills offset by a few black magic skills for good measure, A Tank DNC would be slightly more interesting however it's lack of armor would mean any hit even if built off evasion Tanking would be crippling.

As a simple fan of martial arts and warrior cultures from history and fantasy i can tell you now in my own studies, Katana and Two handed swords (Montante, Claymore, Zweihander, Bearing Sword, ect...) are not handled the same way, to say nothing of the Soul Edge cleavers and Dragon Slayers we DRK's wield... To say that "we already have a two handed sword Tank!" is simply wrong, we have high fantasy based Dark Knight using Darkness and an over large blade almost to heavy to swing. It is nothing like a Samurai's use of a Katana. The fact that as a DRK my hate combo closer has me shooting out a bolt of dark energy pretty much thematically shows it to be a Magic and Melee Job something that RDM can only hope to copy in the same role...

In my ideal build for SAM Tank i see a Draw-Out (FFT) ability that promotes aggressive skill use through AOE buffs to melee DPS (hp, mp, tp, ss, def, vit, str, eva, ect...). Something that my mind would allow more of a zerg like playstyle among melee DPS (DRG, MNK, NIN,)

[Derio]

As long as something is released for tanks we won't have the DF crisis that ninja brought

[Worldofwarcraft]

Samurai will be DPS without a doubt. The community wants it to be DPS. I main a tank, but I know that if the samurai were to be tank a lot of people would be upset, so Yoshi-p clearly doesn't want that. I imagine Red Mage as weird as it may sound might actually be a tank class that uses a fencing weapon. Dancer will be healer.

[Mugiawara]

Samurai will be DPS without a doubt. The community wants it to be DPS. I main a tank, but I know that if the samurai were to be tank a lot of people would be upset, so Yoshi-p clearly doesn't want that. I imagine Red Mage as weird as it may sound might actually be a tank class that uses a fencing weapon. Dancer will be healer.

I know he's talked about SAM being the DPS and all [since he did, and prefered SAM to be one, I can't see it NOT being one]
but has he ever talked about RDM or even DNC? I don't even think they can add or think about another healer right now.
AST needs to be fixed, it's in such a mess right now what to do with it's stances and such...I'm scared Dancer will be a mess also.

[shao32]

snip.

they mention several ajustments to all jobs + utility nerfs to WAR and SCH to make a balance, add a new healer can go perfectly in that formula, same for tanks.

[Astyrah]

they mention several ajustments to all jobs + utility nerfs to WAR and SCH to make a balance, add a new healer can go perfectly in that formula, same for tanks.

i just hope whatever role they put SAM, RDM and DNC (is this as likely as the other 2?) in, is that they undergo extensive testing taking into account things they learned from 3.0 so that the new healer and DPS will not come out of the box under-powered and frowned upon by the playerbase a week after launch.

that being said, i think SAM would make a nice tank or dps; RDM as dps; and DNC probably a melee type healer or another (gulp) support-dps ^^

[shao32]

snip

compared to ARR, heavensward was a disarter in terms of balance, they release 4 jobs in total, plus a lot of thinks they basically run out of time, in heavenswar whe see more changes in stats and job balance that the entire ARR how the only several change whe see was WAR 2.1 and some smalls tics in the rest.

they drop one dungeon per patch and dont touch scholar and warrior even they now they are ovepower from the begining (basically bcs are the same from the release), what i want to say they know about all the balance we need and is obvious they drop support to some areas to keep this weak balance now and make a good one in the next expansion, the fact whe dont go to see any several change in the last 2 patchs before the expansion prove that.

i really hope hope they do a better job after the experience of the first expansion to dont make the same mistakes.

[Nalien]

AST needs to be fixed, it's in such a mess right now what to do with it's stances and such...I'm scared Dancer will be a mess also.

Is the problem Nocturnal Sect being worthless? I always figured it was dumb of them to copy Scholar with that... I'd much rather have seen either a Phalanx style effect or a Wildfire style effect, or a mix of the two... Phalanx effectively worked as an alternate form of Stoneskin, rather than putting up a barrier that blocked say 2,000 damage, wearing off when that damage is dealt, Phalanx put up a barrier that blocked say 50 damage, and only wore off when the duration was up... That has a lot more synergy with Time Dilation/Celestial Opposition. Alternatively, a healer version of Wildfire lets you charge up a heal that is applied when the effect wears off... Can either have your Benefic/Benefic II charge that up, the same way Machinist dealing damage charges up Wildfire, or you can have it charge up from taking damage... Your tank gets hit, that charges up the effect, when it wears off they're healed based on how much damage they took... Either way, it again has synergy with Time Dilation/Celestial Opposition...

I'm no career Astrologian though, so that probably doesn't address the Jobs problem, and even with that I'd still be more incline to use Diurnal Sect, just because it's effect is also beneficial for nuking... I'd kinda like to stance dance between the two, though given how powerful that'd end up being, I can see why that isn't allowed... Still, reminds me somewhat of XIs Scholar in a way... Perhaps we could get an Enlightenment style skill to temporarily swap us... I do kinda like what I think they were going for with the concept, you're meant to read the future and set the right stance based on what the fight will need, which is thematically fitting of the Job, just Nocturnal Sect is kinda really lame... Make it +5% Mind instead of Healing Potency, then it effectively amounts to +5% Magic Attack Power with Clerics Stance, and perhaps I'd want to use it...

inb4 Nocturnal Sect is everyones go-to stance and I've been playing the Job wrong all this time... I'm really not a career Astrologian...

[SaitoHajime]

Samurai will be DPS without a doubt. The community wants it to be DPS. I main a tank, but I know that if the samurai were to be tank a lot of people would be upset, so Yoshi-p clearly doesn't want that. I imagine Red Mage as weird as it may sound might actually be a tank class that uses a fencing weapon. Dancer will be healer.

don't speak for everyone because I rather see sam as a tank.