Monk raid utility. Not popular class

[LilLemay]

I feel like monk isn't inherently inferior to Ninja in the raiding scenario, I've always kinda thought of it from their utility standpoint. Both WAR and NIN provide the slashing debuff, so if you have a WAR, run a MNK, if you dont have a WAR, run a NIN

[Aylon]

Actually it´s like:

If you have DRK/WAR Team, run NIN, if you have PLD/WAR, run MNK, if you have PLD/DRK, run NIN.

But I think most people want NIN cause of Trick Attack rather than Slashing.

[Jonnycbad]

Didn't MNK crap all over DRG in 2.x to the point where nobody bothered with DRG because they had no raid utility? Now MNK is crying because DRK has Delirium and DRG has Battle Litany? Funny how the tables turn. On the other hand, MNK has higher single target DPS than DRG, so that should balance it out, no?

[lulunami]

Didn't MNK crap all over DRG in 2.x to the point where nobody bothered with DRG because they had no raid utility? Now MNK is crying because DRK has Delirium and DRG has Battle Litany? Funny how the tables turn. On the other hand, MNK has higher single target DPS than DRG, so that should balance it out, no?

MNK were preferred over DRG in 2.x because DRG could not survive mechanics in Final Coil and were more adversely affected by missed positional attacks than Monk. NIN was also super OP so the DPS increase of disembowel for BRD was not considered. DRG was buffed and NIN was nerfed in a subsequent patch.

[zuzu-bq]

Didn't MNK crap all over DRG in 2.x to the point where nobody bothered with DRG because they had no raid utility? Now MNK is crying because DRK has Delirium and DRG has Battle Litany? Funny how the tables turn. On the other hand, MNK has higher single target DPS than DRG, so that should balance it out, no?

No, NINs did (at 2.4 launch) for a few factors that players could both abuse and cry over SE's design mistakes for that patch. While MNK Dragon Kick was extremely important for progression making them almost mandatory the other slot was a choice between NIN and DRG, DRGs couldn't survive some free damage aoes having the same gear as the other jobs had and NINs were just too strong when they released having poison affect their Jutsus' magical damage while buffed by Foes and having almost if not actual infinite TP.

On the Delirium topic: while DRK has this utility, its his only utility aside from a RNG-based Storm's Path-like ability, so you can't rely on Reprisal. Well, they have nice damage I guess thats considered as utility for a tank job. And if you bring a MNK and DRK together, you let the DRK freer to Soul Eater and gain a powerfull mantra (and their second wind is quite usefull too, just a a tad more situational) wich are MNK's other utilities. So you can't just say Delirium fades MNKs. I'm bringing you a vision from a player that Mained heals from Second Coil to Midas about how powerful and handy MNK defensive utility is.

[CookieMonsta]

To be honest the true reason (in my opinion at least) why MNK in the current state is not popular (and will never be, if they don't revamp the class completely so that they have lower personal DPS but bring some sort of raid-DPS increasing ability to the table) is that most raiders care a lot about their personal DPS (even more so in hardcore groups).

I think you place too much faith in fflogs. While I agree there are quite a few selfish raiders out there, the distinction between hardcore raiders and midcore is that for hardcore, clearing the fight comes first and foremost (even above fflogs rankings). With this goal in mind, you do everything necessary to reach it, which can mean taking either a MNK or DRG depending on the fight. But most decent raiders would not sacrifice the ease of a clear for personal numbers if given the choice.

[SwarleyMcSwarls]

With the grow in FFlogs popularity and MCH's rise as both a viable and strong job to bring to groups MNK popularity decreased

But the MCH physical damage boost benefits monks more than any other job. So you would think that less bards and more machinists would mean more monks. Also, if we go that route, you would also think that there would be more mnk/drg setups because both classes have no magic damage and have a higher physical damage output than ninja. So I feel like groups are preferring ninja because their utility is vastly superior to that of drg or mnk. And then making a decision to bring more offensive utility as opposed to defensive utility (and also to focus less on boosting melee dps and focusing on ranged or party dps).

[zuzu-bq]

But the MCH physical damage boost benefits monks more than any other job.

But the DRG NIN MCH combo have a synergy that makes people want to play them together for big numbers. I'm wasn't talking abot what is pratical in that sentence, but what is popular.
So no that would not mean more MNKs because MCHs would ask for DRG while DRGs like MCHs too, they're like best buddies! And NIN then says his surprise hi that makes both happy while healers cries for mantra and DRK says "don't worry I'm bad designed but I have Delirium" and spams Soul Sater anyways and the Butcher can never find his lost Path friend. Let me joke a little.

[Starkbeaumont]

is this the new cool thing atm? acting like mnk needs a buff? I've seen it in other places as well

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

How has the tide turned...