YoshiP DoL/DoH translated post

[Kio]

Gathering has always been my primary means of entertainment in MMOs (I suppose I'm a bit strange in that regards) and the one thing that constantly bothers me is that in this version I have absolutely no means of defending myself.
Sure we got stealth, but I feel that there was now a cheap excuse to move aggressive mobs back on top of a lot of node spawn points, and if you are slightly under level as you often will be, you will be attacked. You can't do anything but try to foot it away and hope their long distance attacks (which they all seem to have) don't kill you before you can escape their territory.

This system is terrible to me, especially since where I'm targeting is merely for leveling up purposes. If I wanted a sense of thrill and danger, there should be special areas with rarer items available in the wasted areas of Mor Dhona.

I really wish the crafting and gathering classes were, instead, just a skill subset that you leveled up on your character. It just feels boring and pointless to me to have all these "classes" that I leveled that have no uniqueness to them, no abilities, and what skills you do acquire are often renamed duplicates off one another. I hate having to completely change my class, be forced stripped naked, just to hit one node, or repair one earring, and then have to switch back and regear. But if a mob is about to strike me dead, I can't change classes and clear them lol. It's frustrating. Even all the minigames are completely the same. Having 2 types of nodes that require 2 different tools is sort of dumb to me too, I feel like it was thrown in there to having an excuse for someone to use the otherwise neglected subweapon gear slot.

What I'd love to see happen would be that the gathering or crafting tool was something equipped in the subweapon slot or something similar and didn't change your class from say, a 50 marauder to a 20 weaver. But if you had the weaving tool in that slot you could repair your gear and earn skill exp for weaving without class change. Or, like his example, you'd be able to craft the needed key with a goldsmith tool equipped in subslot, but not drag your party down because you're still the level 50 battle class.
For gathering, you could implement individual stealth spells like in XI for the battle classes and then everyone can enjoy the fun of having to sneak around mobs and explore. May even keep botters and rmt down since you would have to level a battle class in order to progress to higher level areas.

[Betelgeuzah]

I really wish the crafting and gathering classes were, instead, just a skill subset that you leveled up on your character. It just feels boring and pointless to me to have all these "classes" that I leveled that have no uniqueness to them, no abilities, and what skills you do acquire are often renamed duplicates off one another.

It seems that the purpose of these classes escapes you. It's not the gameplay mechanics that make them appealing (or not). It has never been the case, in any MMO.

You know what feels pointless as a crafter or gatherer? That everything you do is actually pointless because the economy is largely irrelevant and perhaps even unexistent. You only do it for yourself at best. NPC's, quests and instances take care of your duties and you are left with a a simple "click a bush to collect mats you can turn into items for yourself which are weaker than what you can get from NPC's" system. Additionally "click a bush to collect mats you can turn into items which you can sell in the AH for money that is largely irrelevant when it comes down to it since best items are obtained elsewhere."

Granted, the "click a bush" part is irrelevant here as the mechanics are not really important, and there's nothing wrong with this kind of system if you can't make the mechanics any more meaningful. Still, you can have equipment and other gathering/crafting related items and knowledge you need to gather to become better at your task, so in that way the roles can be fleshed out without touching the mechanics.

[HiirNoivl]

You know what feels pointless as a crafter or gatherer? That everything you do is actually pointless because the economy is largely irrelevant . You only do it for yourself at best. NPC's, quests and instances take care of your duties and you are left with a a simple "click a bush to collect mats you can turn into items for yourself which are weaker than what you can get from NPC's" system. Additionally "click a bush to collect mats you can turn into items which you can sell in the AH for money that is largely irrelevant when it comes down to it since best items are obtained elsewhere."

That's my whole point from our discussion on the Translation board!! XD

I'm glad you understand why I feel DoL is not needed. :3

[Betelgeuzah]

That's my whole point from our discussion on the Translation board!! XD

I'm glad you understand why I feel DoL is not needed. :3

What?

Economy is largely irrelevant according to you?

Mats turned into items are weaker than what you can get from NPC's?

Money is largely irrelevant since best items are obtained elsewhere? Where, Dzemael?

The only thing that might be even remotely relevant as far as XIV is concerned is that DoH and DoL use a middle-man to sell their products. Even EVE does that and an economy simulator can't get any better than that game.

[HiirNoivl]

lol As a DoL I'm basically an NPC. People mostly see all my DoL work behind my retainer. :3 "Who's going out gathering all that crap? I dunno." My DoL work is largely invisible. Sure I could dump all my inventory and rename my retainers after myself but... I've collected a lot of stuff. And besides, I want my DoL work to have more face time! Mail system will help with that a lot maybe. But only if it's quicker than heading to the MWs. I submit that it will not be.

Economy is irrelevant because gil is largely irrelevant. Gil is dirt. Want some of mine? XD

The best items are obtained elsewhere... from crafters. You don't get the best items from gathering. You get mats from gathering... making the items is the crafter's job.

See? We agree.

[Chezen]

I'd have to agree, in terms of the "Main Story" I feel perhaps they should rename it War Story or something to that effect cause calling it the "main story" might make land/hand feel like they are missing out on the main focus of the game if it's called the "main story".

Given time and resources (resources being the key word) I think it maybe it's possible to give DoL/H their own main story. It could be one that really has nothing to do with the battle main story. Maybe a storyline that starts because of early events in the main, but becomes a completely separate story by itself. Because it would be separate, their would be no need to be concerned about completing it at different times with the other storyline, and only a minimal amount of watching would be needed for continuity. Yoshi-P mentioned making some quests just for DoH/L, so what if he could turn that into their own "main story"?

It would make DoH/L back to being on somewhat equal footing, add another layer of interesting content for the game, and give more content an adventurer may or may not choose to complete.

Just a thought.

[TheFatHousecat]

Gathering has always been my primary means of entertainment in MMOs (I suppose I'm a bit strange in that regards) and the one thing that constantly bothers me is that in this version I have absolutely no means of defending myself.
Sure we got stealth, but I feel that there was now a cheap excuse to move aggressive mobs back on top of a lot of node spawn points, and if you are slightly under level as you often will be, you will be attacked. You can't do anything but try to foot it away and hope their long distance attacks (which they all seem to have) don't kill you before you can escape their territory.

This system is terrible to me, especially since where I'm targeting is merely for leveling up purposes. If I wanted a sense of thrill and danger, there should be special areas with rarer items available in the wasted areas of Mor Dhona.

I really wish the crafting and gathering classes were, instead, just a skill subset that you leveled up on your character. It just feels boring and pointless to me to have all these "classes" that I leveled that have no uniqueness to them, no abilities, and what skills you do acquire are often renamed duplicates off one another. I hate having to completely change my class, be forced stripped naked, just to hit one node, or repair one earring, and then have to switch back and regear. But if a mob is about to strike me dead, I can't change classes and clear them lol. It's frustrating. Even all the minigames are completely the same. Having 2 types of nodes that require 2 different tools is sort of dumb to me too, I feel like it was thrown in there to having an excuse for someone to use the otherwise neglected subweapon gear slot.

What I'd love to see happen would be that the gathering or crafting tool was something equipped in the subweapon slot or something similar and didn't change your class from say, a 50 marauder to a 20 weaver. But if you had the weaving tool in that slot you could repair your gear and earn skill exp for weaving without class change. Or, like his example, you'd be able to craft the needed key with a goldsmith tool equipped in subslot, but not drag your party down because you're still the level 50 battle class.
For gathering, you could implement individual stealth spells like in XI for the battle classes and then everyone can enjoy the fun of having to sneak around mobs and explore. May even keep botters and rmt down since you would have to level a battle class in order to progress to higher level areas.

Repost for justice.

[Cendres]

Then what in the world are you talking about?

Yoshi addresses, among other things:
-The same quest from different viewpoints depending on class.
-Separate parallel quests for each class dealing with the same situation.
-Classes working together within the same quest.

What are YOU talking about, if not any of these? He pretty much covers the bases here.

And he's saying these things will not be happening anymore, which Lienn opposes. If I got where that convo was going.

[Betelgeuzah]

The best items are obtained elsewhere... from crafters.

Crafted items have the gathering items' value attached to them. There will be no best items if there are no mats to make them.

If gatherers were not needed in the process of making said items, they would be rendered useless. This is the case for most MMO's but not FFXIV.

Money has value because money is used to obtain items that have had actual value ever since 1.19. Items have value because they make a difference in performance which they previously did not. Aiming towards improving performance is one of the main incentives of playing an MMORPG. After level 35 equipment is used to provide greatest improvements, so they have the greatest value as well.

Gil is hardly irrelevant, although you need larger quantities of it to make a difference as opposed to some other currencies.

Your DoL work can be seen in any armor or weapon that exists in the game. Just because there are no neonlights showing "MATS GATHERED BY HIIR NOIVL" doesn't mean your effort is invisible.

[HiirNoivl]

Your DoL work can be seen in any armor or weapon that exists in the game. Just because there are no neonlights showing "MATS GATHERED BY HIIR NOIVL" doesn't mean your effort is invisible

Actually... that sounds pretty awesome... Having a storefront would be great. And a little sign "Gone Fishin'. See retainer..." when I'm out. XD

Well, I guess I'll go stock my retainer and go afk.

Peace out!