square please challenge us a little

[Welsper59]

Anyway, the speedrun mentality will never go away unless they make it go away. It's always better to get things done as quick as possible and when everything is exactly the same every time you go in a dungeon then you're going to feel more inclined to zoom through.

This is actually faulty logic (even if it is sound), simply due to prior experience. In WoW, with Cataclysm, the devs tried to bring back a need to slow down runs by requiring things like CC for most parties. In other words, a return to old school gameplay. We're at a point in time where the idea is promising, but the actual practice is (hypocritically) met with hate by the very people who argued for that same return because of the fact it's slower than we're accustomed to. Once the speedrun mentality has been established, which this game has almost always been, you can't break it so easily.

The devs would need to start slow, and despite any hate/dislike/whatever they meet on the matter, they cannot relent. Steps of Faith was a good example of introducing the concept, albeit not the best example, and ideally where they shouldn't have caved in with changing. Make a dungeon that does, in fact, require some form of CC. Make BLMs with Sleep the more ideal job to have for ease of the run, but also allow it to be something where the other jobs with Bind, Stun, whatever can manage in their own way. Remove diminishing returns on most status debuffs for PvE content, because that crap obviously serves little to no purpose anyway now. Stun probably still needs DR though, or maybe increase resource cost by a lot, since PLD can spam that lol. Return to us the freedoms that the genre traditionally gave us back in the day with choosing (within reason) how we tackle content. If a BLM wants to sleep chain trash mobs, let them.

Once the waters have been tested, and it seems well accepted, bring out more opportunities to test us for our GROUP efforts rather than our individual ones. DPS output is an individual effort, but working together with stun orders and watching each others backs is a group effort and something that is sorely missing from this genre today.

[Khalithar]

This is actually faulty logic (even if it is sound), simply due to prior experience. In WoW, with Cataclysm, the devs tried to bring back a need to slow down runs by requiring things like CC for most parties. In other words, a return to old school gameplay.

I loved Cataclysm for this reason. It required everyone to step up compared to the difficulty from Wotlk and a lot of players that couldn't hack it were given a wake up. From there the players I knew either got better and stepped up or they quit running the high level content. Of course, for those of us that raided at that time, once we got the raid gear we went back to speedrunning since once you overgeared them the harder dungeons were a joke. The dungeons were only difficult the first time through, eventually we just overpowered the mobs and brute forced most mechanics without issue.

Edit: Although at the time I basically stopped pugging. I only ran the dungeons with raid geared friends from my raiding guild or their alts, i.e. people I gamed with all the time (synergy and knowing how to work together is definitely a thing), knew how to play their role at the raid level, and had the really good gear.