square please challenge us a little

[Yeol]

I understand what you are asking for. Making something too easy will not make players get better at their jobs or learn faster. A little challenge will do that. This could even stop people from going lazy mood during dungeon runs. But then again, we have some hard dungeons like Aurum Vale which many people seem to leave duty as soon as they enter it. You don't want that to happen with new dungeons do you?

[Archaell]

It's hard to make the dungeons more difficult when the min. ilvl is set so low.

For it to work we would either need to slow down the progression of new players or introduce item level sync in current content... neither of which would be players happy about.

[Zojha]

It's hard to make the dungeons more difficult when the min. ilvl is set so low.

Making good difficulty is problematic as a whole.

You can up the numbers on damage/mitigation (or reducing iLvL), which is the easiest way, but also not very interesting, as gameplay is unaffected - making mechanics more punishing falls into the same category. You can add more mechanics to consider, which means the fight requires more memorization and awareness (Randomization of mechanics falls into this as well). You can reduce the time people have to react to things, but that means people with latency will underperform through no fault of their own.

Aaand...that's it for the current battle system.

[Neophyte]

They should just give us an duty finder option (works only with full groups) to slap an Echo-Boost (HP/Dmg +) of 30-40% on the enemies for 25-50% more tomes, buffed minions drops and maybe crafting mats if that's a thing.

Also an option which mixes minimum ilvl with no level sync for funs (don't want to gather gear just for that).

[Xlantaa]

In my opinion. It is the players who lock it themselves in this.

Let's put a example:

Normal daily roulette. We got Aurum Vale (is not hard, but can be challenguing for newies). We get a pro-hyper-megallevel tank with item elvel 50000000, 67000 runs on Alexander Savage (or any other player, doesn't matter really) and the best loot in the game, and we get few newies or low level character ungeared. The mega-tank leaves or force DC beacuse want a quick dungeon and dont' want spent more than 5 minutes in a dungeon.

Let's say SquareEnix add a challenguing labirynth dungeon with puzzles and hard enemies like a lot of people suggested here (including myself). People enter, get a slow and hard dungeon. Then leaves of force DC. Come to the forums: "Please, SE, remove labirynth and puzzles from dungeons, we cannot speedrun everything!!! I don't like stay more than 20 minutes in a dungeon, must be done quick and if possible, and let me blame if the others have low DPS!"

Then stay those who are at level 60 but they didn't bother in learn how to use a class.

This is my vision of the situation. Is not only low skilled players as most people sugested (oh yeah because ALL is their fault >.>). "Pro players" (or whatever you want call them) and speedrunners are the core or the problem for me. Dungeons have become just a race and a show of who can get DPS high numbers. And the behaviour or speedrun everything is telling the devs what is people doing and that's what's giving us.


So, yes. We need first change the mentality. And, most of all, stop with the Speedrun mentality. Then maybe we can get something interesting.

[Kerii]

-snip-

I wasn't talking about new/bad players if it makes you feel better. At least they make an effort and cooperate. xD

[Xlantaa]

I wasn't talking about new/bad players if it makes you feel better. At least they make an effort and cooperate. xD

I was talking more about the general think in this forum, not specifically your comment, of course

[Zojha]

So, yes. We need first change the mentality. And, most of all, stop with the Speedrun mentality. Then maybe we can get something interesting.

Good luck with that.

The desire to speedrun something comes from the fact that you have stopped running the content for the fun of it and instead only run it for the rewards, which also means it is now in competition with other pieces of content offering the same/similar rewards (Reward per time/effort efficiency comes into play here). This is caused by repetition of the content, or rather, the diminishing enjoyment of the content itself. You can see the opposite effect in PvP games - against all reward efficiency, people who stomp their opposition frequently prolong the game artificially in order to stomp them more, simply because they enjoy the stomping (And since this comes at the opposing team's expense, they'll have a guy going:"Surrender@20!", as they now no longer enjoy it and therefore want to end it ASAP).
At times, it's also because you have become so experienced with the content that speedrunning is the only way it can engage you - that's no different for puzzles. People have speedrun even games as expansive as Ocarina of Time and I wager those were people who already knew the game inside out.

This is different from the desire to keep content duration limited. The longer something takes, the more likely it is that unforeseen IRL events occur - it's primarily a casual desire and much akin to having frequent save spots/an anytime save feature. It shrinks the time block people have to dedicate for a certain piece of content. For reward efficiency, it doesn't matter if a content takes 20 minutes, 40 or 2 hours - you just multiply the rewards accordingly. I am willing to bet however that the shorter ones would still be preferred.
There's also the matter of expectation: If you are used to dungeons taking 25 minutes, that's what you will expect of dungeons and consequently, you'll be inclined to get into a dungeon if you only have half an hour of free time.

So yeah...I can only repeat:"Good luck". I don't see how you would be able to change the mentality.

[Antonio_Xul]

If you want a challenge, just do Savage, Ex Primals Synched & Coils Synched! There's your challenge. Doing instances with new, unskilled or learning players is also challenging, which I also don't take for granted for its challenge.

[Dumbledoremd]

If you want a challenge, just do Savage, Ex Primals Synched & Coils Synched! There's your challenge. Doing instances with new, unskilled or learning players is also challenging, which I also don't take for granted for its challenge.

Again not asking for savage style 4 mans i just dont want 4 mans being as easy as hullbreaker hm was pharos sirius hm is a good example of what i want