square please challenge us a little

[Critical-Limit]

Yes please. mechanics are non-threatening, the only risk of dying is a flub during a huge pull. Which most dungeons won't even let you do that anymore.

I guess failure is literally not a option in dungeons.

[Gemina]

Yes please. mechanics are non-threatening, the only risk of dying is a flub during a huge pull. Which most dungeons won't even let you do that anymore.

I guess failure is literally not a option in dungeons.

All mechanics are threatening. That's why you abide by them. Whether solo or in group, I KNOW most, if not all of us here have failed a duty in story mode. Or what most refer to as faceroll content? So when you say the only risk of dying is a flub, I have to ask what other risk is there?

In a way I get it. If a dungeon run is crazy smooth. Cleared in 20 minutes (maybe less for some dungeons), and no problems. It's kind of just "meh". You have to rely on things going wrong in order to test your skill and get some kind of excitement. I also understand that other people are different. They LOVE those smooth runs, and they gain confidence from those. When things are so diverse among a player base, I can only imagine how difficult it is for the designers to come up with something suitable for everyone. Both those wanting more difficulty and less need to try and understand this. But do know that the devs can release content that is just stupid difficult if they wanted. So yeah, be careful what you ask for.

[Hakuro89]

Careful what you wish for. The last time we said 'please challenge us more', they gave us Gordias Savage.

[Nestama]

Careful what you wish for. The last time we said 'please challenge us more', they gave us Gordias Savage.

They'd never put 'Savage' into Light Party dungeons (unless they make a Light Party raid).

[Hakuro89]

They'd never put 'Savage' into Light Party dungeons (unless they make a Light Party raid).

I'm aware. That was a reference of SE taking player requests to unnecessary extremes.

[Airget]

Please square please challenge us a little with the great gubal library hard mode do not make it like Hullbreaker hard total faceroll i loved the original hullbreaker i also loved the original great gubal library (should of been a 60 dungeon) we can be challenged its ok we dont need our hand held anyone agree?

The issue comes from giving an option for people who want to catchup a way to do the new content without needing all the gear. Pretty much if you play regularly the new dungeons are going to be easy because you could say the dungeons are 1 patch behind on the best gear from the patch before.

Let's look at current gear, started around 220, have 230 by 3.3 and then 240 by 3.4. So 3.2 was 180 and 3.3 200 but see by 3.3 you are nearly at 230 if you gained tomes regularly so it's just going to be easier for you. It's a 200 dungeon, that drops 215 gear so already you can tell that these dungeons aren't designed for players like us that are already past that IL. If they made the content harder then people who would be using those dungeons to obtain il 215 gear if say they only have i200 esoteric set wouldn't be able to get the gear because it would be to hard for the reward.

Dungeons are nothing more than a means to gear up a tad faster while gaining tomes and replacing gear as needed or for glamour. It's hard to adjust dungeons to be harder because if you get the difficulty to obtain gear from that content closer to the cost/time of obtaining tomes you negate the usefulness of said content for people playing catchup.

[Derio]

I could see having one hard dungeon and the other one easy but not both. People use dungeons to catch up

[Fluffernuff]

Honestly... I don't get the mentality. Dungeons aren't designed to be overly challenging. I'm not even saying having them be easy or hard is bad/good, either.

Ok, let's think about what these dungeons will be run for and the average player you would expect to run them:
Gear upgrades
Possible glamour pieces... if the set is nice enough
Ex Roulette rewards. you cant choose what you get, after all
Returning players
First-time 60 players
"softcore" players (players that run roulettes/EX primals regularly and are on daily, but aren't "hardcore raiders")
Alt characters
"hardcore" players gearing secondary/tertiary/etc. Jobs

Now if we have these dungeons be more difficult yet designed to be cleared reliably on a daily basis, the rewards NEED to match this curve, or they wont even be run in the first place. I mean... would YOU run weeping City every day for ilvl 200-215 gear? Didn't think so.

Now who would benefit from an unreliable yet rewarding daily experience?

New players just gearing up on their first 60? no, they wont like have the previous gear/experience to even clear the content without getting carried/kicked. They would need to grind more on previous content first.

"softcore" players? well, they'd certainly run it daily, but these players also make up the bulk of players who drop at the first sign of any difficulty, high change they would drop to re-roll their roulette. I fear the fun added from more difficulty would be overshadowed by the annoyance of other unwilling players.

Hardcore end game raiders? well I'm not one myself, so I can't say I can speak for them... but I cant imagine they would have much enjoyment in having another checkbox they need to clear on the same level as theyre getting locked out of

Ok then.. what does a higher difficulty give in return?
Fun? well fun is subjective anyway... but for the sake of devil's advocate let's just say every single person that plays this game wants everything harder and challenge = fun unanimously

Pride in clearing the content? well... hmm... how long will that hole up once the tome farm kicks in?

Rewards scaled to the difficulty of the content? Well if dungeon gear becomes the "BiS" i would think that would defeat alot of the purpose of dungeon gear being the baseline.

I for one would like the idea of more difficulty being added to dungeons, but I can't really see it being beneficial for the playerbase... or fit for purpose. unlike raid content or EX primals, dungeons are meant/designed to be repeated and cleared reliably and somewhat quickly. granted, i know all 3 eventually ARE cleared reliably and quickly on a regular basis, but only ex roulette dungeons are DESIGNED to be

[Nestama]

Now if we have these dungeons be more difficult yet designed to be cleared reliably on a daily basis, the rewards NEED to match this curve, or they wont even be run in the first place. I mean... would YOU run weeping City every day for ilvl 200-215 gear? Didn't think so.

I think most players run Weeping City once a week (with Void Ark if they're still in need of upgrading gear). The dungeons themselves don't need to be overly challenging, just... engaging and not obnoxious (bosses that make themselves untergetable and/or make the floor ice. That's annoying), but also have mechanics that punish the player for ignoring them (punishment varies).