square please challenge us a little

[Mugiawara]

I agree. The dungeons are fine at the difficulty they are now.

If you want harder go do savage raids and extreme trials.

4 man dungeons honestly need a tweak somewhere.
All of them are face roll easy. I'm glad 24 man ones
are starting to get a bit more difficult, VA2 is so damn fun, and still to this day
people kinda have difficulties but it's fun to recover and win at the end.
I don't wanna block out more difficult content just because everyone thinks
DF is all THAT bad. I did most of my content in DF and prefer to.

Well, if that's the case, then let's ask for Dungeon Extreme Mode. Turn that sumbitch up to 11! Sastasha EX, Haukke Manor EX, Wanderers Palace EX, etc. I can get behind that. Keep adding HM, but maybe start adding EX as well.

Could make new dungeons that is actually hard instead of revisiting the same old dungeons over and over in 10 different levels.

[Kurogaea]

I agree. The dungeons are fine at the difficulty they are now.

If you want harder go do savage raids and extreme trials.

And btw, THESE ARE NOT DUNGEONS. They are giant boss fights that require frequent trial and error with perfect synchronized coordination. In other words, synchronized dances. Coil is no different aside from from T3 I think with the hoops and jumping, that takes simple attention to objects.

[Dumbledoremd]

Im not asking for savage difficulty im asing that i at least need to think a little hullbreaker was fine the hm was a step down

[Dumbledoremd]

Those type of players play dcuo the content is made for them

[Neophyte]

They should just give us an duty finder option (works only with full groups) to slap an Echo-Boost (HP/Dmg +) of 30-40% on the enemies for 25-50% more tomes, buffed minions drops and maybe crafting mats if that's a thing.

Also an option which mixes minimum ilvl with no level sync for funs (don't want to gather gear just for that).

[Yeol]

I understand what you are asking for. Making something too easy will not make players get better at their jobs or learn faster. A little challenge will do that. This could even stop people from going lazy mood during dungeon runs. But then again, we have some hard dungeons like Aurum Vale which many people seem to leave duty as soon as they enter it. You don't want that to happen with new dungeons do you?

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I understand what you are asking for. Making something too easy will not make players get better at their jobs or learn faster. A little challenge will do that. This could even stop people from going lazy mood during dungeon runs. But then again, we have some hard dungeons like Aurum Vale which many people seem to leave duty as soon as they enter it. You don't want that to happen with new dungeons do you?

This only happens if the alternatives offer better rewards. People left Steps of Faith because they knew they could queue for Trial again and likely get something else. With Expert Roulette, your choices are limited to whatever the current new dungeons are. Look at Weeping City. Despite all the initial whining, people eventually sucked it up because if you wanted to upgrade your Lore gear or get gear itself, you had no choice but to learn and embrace its challenge. And WC isn't even "hard". It simply keeps you alert due to the sheer amount of mechanics-- none of which are overly difficult once you figure out the pattern. If dungeons followed a similar design, I think people would gradually adapt.

As long as duty finder matches you with random players who may, or may not, do more than push three buttons at a time... No thanks. I'll be more than happy with dungeons that only take me and the tank to do reliably.



Edit: Bolded the relevant words to clarify which direction I lean on the subject.

If you maintain the status quo, what motivation do people have to improve? The lack of any meaningful challenge is why people 1-2-3 combo. They know they can get away with little to no effort and get carried. If dungeons were made so DPS who didn't do an active rotation became slow, sluggish or even dangerous, you would gradually see less "Ice Mages" either from community demands or those players getting frustrated the rest of us can't carry them through. Right now, I know I could Impulse Drive the whole way through Hullbreaker Hard. I'd be bored to tears, but I could do it.

[Zojha]

If you maintain the status quo, what motivation do people have to improve?

Right now, I know I could Impulse Drive the whole way through Hullbreaker Hard. I'd be bored to tears, but I could do it.

You're kinda answering your own question here.

In general, people improve because getting better at something comes with increased satisfaction or enjoyment, be it via flashier animations, less anxiety about potentially holding people back, a higher engagement level, ego boosts (in the case of PvP), a better integration into a social group or other reasons.
I wager especially the last point is a large reason why the JP community has so much higher clear rates for challenging content (and is probably better on average as well).

Trying to motivate people with frustration instead also motivates them to stop doing the content altogether. So next thing is clamoring for higher rewards to compensate for the frustration caused earlier.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

You're kinda answering your own question here.

In general, people improve because getting better at something comes with increased satisfaction or enjoyment, be it via flashier animations, less anxiety about potentially holding people back, a higher engagement level, ego boosts (in the case of PvP), a better integration into a social group or other reasons.
I wager especially the last point is a large reason why the JP community has so much higher clear rates for challenging content (and is probably better on average as well).

Trying to motivate people with frustration instead also motivates them to stop doing the content altogether. So next thing is clamoring for higher rewards to compensate for the frustration caused earlier.

There's a difference though. You can scale up the difficulty without it becoming frustrating. Weeping City is a prime example. People complained, yet once it was clear it wouldn't see any nerfs, they sucked it up because the rewards were enough. Dungeons lack this kind of incentive, thus why people tend to see them as repeatable chores you just do. I am not asking for Savage, which yes, you aren't going to convince the average player to do. Just something that requires you to actually know how to play your job. Level 60 dungeons should be a step above, not utterly mindless like some have been.

[Zojha]

People complained, yet once it was clear it wouldn't see any nerfs, they sucked it up because the rewards were enough.

Either that, or the people still doing that content are not the same people that complained it was too hard for them in the first place (See also: "People" complaining about the cash shop while at the same time, "people" ask for additions to the cash shop). You could make everything Savage difficulty and after a while, almost everyone who remains would be fine with it - because the people who aren't just left. Neither you nor me have numbers one way or the other however - best approximation would be average queue times and even that is faulty because of the player fall-off in the course of an expansion.

I feel the thing people don't quite get is that "difficulty" is very subjective. If dungeons are "easy" to you and your social circle, that doesn't mean they are "easy" to the average person or even everyone. I not only know but also regularly experience people for whom just doing their rotation without any mechanics is already too difficult (And Yoshida has openly acknowledged that doing both at the same time has become a bit of an issue for many). You can't find a universal "sweet spot" in difficulty when everyone has an individual one, you can only offer more options and hope to hit as many as possible - and then people demand better rewards for having a higher sweet spot >_>