Add difficulty/challenge modes to dungeons

[Rennies]

If you want to have it harder, gather some people and go into savage. That should make it difficult enough.

We want harder, but not static shatteringly hard. Please reread if you don't understand.

[Tint]

We want harder, but not static shatteringly hard. Please reread if you don't understand.

exactly, this game still lacks the middle-ground of difficulty. especially harder content for 4 people would be nice, because it's way easier to find and coordinate 4 people than 8. that alone will make savage content for 4 people easier than for 8 people and could fit the middle-ground.

i hope for deep dungeon, but my expectations are low :x

[Ilan]

We want harder, but not static shatteringly hard. Please reread if you don't understand.

Oh i understood you completly right, but i can tell you how it will be if you add an extra mode for the 4 people dungeons. One part of the people start to demand that the harder modes should have better drops or more tomes as reward, the second part will complain that this mode is to hard. And IF it would give better rewards for the harder version, people will start to complain about that too, because they want the higher rewards but they don't want to do it the hard way.

SE could make the comming dungeons harder, but people would start to complain that its to hard for casuals and others who don't want to spend long in dungeons for roulettes will complain about the 5-10 minutes that it will take longer to finish a roulette dungeon. I mean just take a look how many people complain that it is to hard and other people complain about "bad" players in there.

I understand your wish but the chance is most likely 0 especially since SE wants to make even the savage raids and the primals easier to keep the casual players at bay.

[SessionZero]

One part of the people start to demand that the harder modes should have better drops or more tomes as reward, the second part will complain that this mode is to hard. And IF it would give better rewards for the harder version, people will start to complain about that too, because they want the higher rewards but they don't want to do it the hard way.

I disagree with this. I don't think people are so unreasonable that they would think it's okay to demand higher tier rewards without doing higher tier content. If anything it may push traditionally casual players into a less casual mindset to try and achieve these higher tier rewards. Pushing dungeons out with a normal mode and a heroic mode is the best of both worlds. Casual players get gear aimed at casual content and hardcore players get better gear aimed at more hardcore content. Everyone wins.

[Zojha]

Casual players get gear aimed at casual content and hardcore players get better gear aimed at more hardcore content.

Shouldn't you give casual players far better gear so they can compensate their lack of skill with it and join hardcore content instead?

It's somewhat odd that people claim better players should better gear when the purpose of bettering your gear is to make content easier through higher DPS, more margin of error etc. That is exactly what less skilled players need in order to engage in harder content and exactly what better players prove they don't. Thus, in order to justify it, you need even harder content that requires this higher DPS and higher margin of error even for better skilled players. Even among the better skilled players however, there are differences - some would need better equipment for that content, but they cannot get it, whereas the even better skilled do get it by proving they don't need it. That in turn...

If you're consequent about it, it's pretty much a sieve system that can be done as often as you like until only one hardcore group remains, while a constantly increasing amount of people gets locked off content. Granted, in theory - in practice, SE probably wouldn't have the ressources to play the exclusion game all the way to the end. I don't think that's a very good system overall, though.

[TaleraRistain]

Casual players get gear aimed at casual content and hardcore players get better gear aimed at more hardcore content.

The problem here is what do you define as casual content and what do you define as hardcore content in a game like this where we all have to do the same content to progress? EQII did this and it turned into the solo content and gear was for the casuals and everything else, even just basic dungeons, started to be balanced toward the more hardcore because the content wasn't challenging enough. There was even one expansion that was too hard for the solo fanbase when it first came out because it had been balanced toward hardcore gear in the beta. That got updated, but it was unpleasant just trying to complete the solo content in open zones when it first launched. If you're going to say the MSQ here should be balanced around more hardcore gear, then you lock the casual fanbase out of MSQ progression.

[Deliciou5]

There certainly needs to be more mid-core content, if SE did something like revamp all old 50/60 dungeons so that the monsters were harder with not as many aoe indicators, like doing a extreme version of a primal fight etc. and had a few new mechanics for the bosses, i think they could easily make all the old dungeons into something special and fun to get a weekly reward on...something you do every week, but not spam grind it all week since it will still be fairly challenging and no one wants to grind challenging content all week. It will be like doing 24 man raid once a week.

It wouldn't be hard to revamp older dungeons, the assets are already there and i am sure players would look at these dungeons a lot differently if you weren't freaking over-leveled for a EXPERT LEVEL DUNGEON on RELEASE DAY making it push over easy for most parties never truly getting to appreciate the dungeon for what is...it ends up as just another boring grind instead of being fairly daunting challenge. Also they should make the rewards for these dungeons only accessible through a roulette or something to prevent players from just spamming the easiest one over and over.