Samurai Weapon: Nodachi or basic katana

[Cynric]

Saw a comment about how there are probably samurai tank assets. . but id like to note that if you look at drk use of parry and the usage of their sword that it seems the tank assets were just used for drk instead. Just my opinion though. As for weapon im thinking it will just be generic katana. Any creativity will come through unique drop designs.

[Shippuu]

Saw a comment about how there are probably samurai tank assets. . but id like to note that if you look at drk use of parry and the usage of their sword that it seems the tank assets were just used for drk instead. Just my opinion though. As for weapon im thinking it will just be generic katana. Any creativity will come through unique drop designs.

I disagree, the sluggish animations and choice for DRK to use their swords in the awkward Ox stance speaks of a decision to deliberately differentiate the way DRK's use their swords, possibly to prevent overlap if they do decide on making Samurai a tank. The way a Samurai would use their normal katana (or dual wield) would make them quite different animations-wise compared to DRK.

Also, saying Samurai couldn't use parry because DRK has 1 parry cooldown (WAR also has 1 parry cooldown that's better than DRK's) is like saying they shouldn't have added DRK because PLD has abilities that reduce the damage they take. Just because one (or two) tanks have certain cooldowns doesn't mean others can't either.


As for the topic, I wish to see Samurai either use a traditional katana with sheath, or a dual wield option. I'd rather not see the large great katanas from FFXI make their return.

[Tint]

Also, saying Samurai couldn't use parry because DRK has 1 parry cooldown (WAR also has 1 parry cooldown that's better than DRK's) is like saying they shouldn't have added DRK because PLD has abilities that reduce the damage they take. Just because one (or two) tanks have certain cooldowns doesn't mean others can't either.

DRK doesn't only have one parry cooldown - DRK has mechanics about parrying. Reprisal and the cooldown reset of Low Blow are depending on parry.

[Shippuu]

DRK doesn't only have one parry cooldown - DRK has mechanics about parrying. Reprisal and the cooldown reset of Low Blow are depending on parry.

And? Your point being? Still doesn't change the fact that another job can be added that has similar abilities related to parry. To say amother job can't have anything proc off of a parry is like saying DRK shouldn't have been added because PLD procs a shield swipe off of a block which is fundamentally the same as a parry.

[Tint]

And? Your point being? Still doesn't change the fact that another job can be added that has similar abilities related to parry. To say amother job can't have anything proc off of a parry is like saying DRK shouldn't have been added because PLD procs a shield swipe off of a block which is fundamentally the same as a parry.

sure they can add another tank with a 2 hander sword wich has mechanics around parrying. but isn't that a bit... boring?

[Cynric]

DRK doesn't only have one parry cooldown - DRK has mechanics about parrying. Reprisal and the cooldown reset of Low Blow are depending on parry.

@Shippuu
Exactly this. I originally switched to DRK and the entire job is based around parrying. In order to reach your DPS ceiling as a DRK you have to be able to parry. In order to be able to reset your stun you need to parry. In order to even do something similar to storms path you have to parry. DRK is already a parry tank. In fact its ironic how DRK is the so called magic tank when magic can not be parried effectively reducing the effectiveness of using DRK to main tank in fights like Ramuh that are pure magical damage and removing the ability to use the trait low blows and the skill reprisal, while also making Dark Dance somewhat useless.

You bring Warrior into this conversation however don't forget Warrior can literally do everything except block and hardly even needs a healer in some content.

As far as the weight behind the attacks and the stance. I did say in my opinion it seems like they just used the assets. It looks very similar to how I'd imagine a Samurai-tank would attack, and I just don't see them making another two handed sword user a tank.

Going off of that if they did make Sam a tank it definitely would not be a parry tank. DRK is already the parry tank. It would not be a magical tank as DRK already holds that as well. DRK also has the "counter attack" style down with low blows/ reprisal. This is why I say the assets seem to have been used on DRK instead. I just can't envision a DRK being a parry user, yet that is the direction they took with it. Which to me seems like they reused assets from the original concept for samurai which very well could have been a parry tank.

The chances of it being a DPS are much higher than it being a tank. That's not to say the chance is zero but it's just not a very high chance. Due to these reasons.

There are no sword DPS. - They could use anything as a sword DPS but Sam seems to be very wanted in both our community and the JP community as a sword DPS.

There is already a 2h sword Tank user - DRK has pretty much everything that SAM as a tank would have had when thinking inside the box involving parry/counter/partial magic damage.

Square has had issues balancing 3 tank jobs - They've already had a ton of issues balancing three tanks. I feel they'd rather introduce a blunt tank than introduce another slashing tank which would make it even harder to balance between the current tanking jobs. The amount of revamping needed would be very high.

The backlash from making DRK a tank was high. I highly doubt they'd want to experience that again.

Doma not having a defensive class does not matter. The class balance only matters for the starting zones. The expansion will not be a starting zone as far as we know.

This isn't to say it can't be a tank I just highly doubt it. Especially if they're going by what the community wants.

If they just did it without considering the community. I'd see it being a tank. If they're doing it considering what the community wants then it will be a melee DPS.

Either way I will play it. However, I just hope they make it play interestingly. Though the chances of me continuing to play it if it were a tank is very low. As not only are there only two maximum tank slots but Square has issues making involving and challenging tanking mechanics while also keeping each tank balanced and viable.

[shao32]

There are no sword DPS. - They could use anything as a sword DPS but Sam seems to be very wanted in both our community and the JP community as a sword DPS.

ninja have short swords in they arsenal, some even are close to touch the ground, so thats not a excuse

Square has had issues balancing 3 tank jobs - They've already had a ton of issues balancing three tanks. I feel they'd rather introduce a blunt tank than introduce another slashing tank which would make it even harder to balance between the current tanking jobs. The amount of revamping needed would be very high.

the most balance issuses from the tanks was the str meta how as been solved, some paladin agro issues how as been solved, and the huge utility of the war bcs the job dont have any one to shap in OT spot and as been adresed to by yoship himself, bring a new tank can make more easy balance the tanks bcs they are obiously designe to work in bot MT and OT but shining in only one spot, ergo PLD/DRK vs WAR.

The backlash from making DRK a tank was high. I highly doubt they'd want to experience that again.

there is no baklash, DRK is now one of the most popular tanks behind WAR, and make a lot of players how never play the tank role find a new horizont in the game.

If they're doing it considering what the community wants then it will be a melee DPS.

nah, part of the community(with some are selfis and only want every new job become DPS with no exception) want SAM dps, but they are a lot of players how want a SAM tank, i preffer SAM tank but im up to for be dps.

and that others are saying about a new tank or SAM tank dont bring nothing new, is the same for dps you know, what a new dps go to bring to the actual ones? a dsp with new mechanics to play, is the same for tanks and healers, they are a lot of fields that SE can go to make new tanks healers and dps enjoyable.

and on topic, i say a katana and meaby scabbard too.

[Shippuu]

@Shippuu
Exactly this. I originally switched to DRK and the entire job is based around parrying.

This is absolutely incorrect. The entire DRK job is based around 3 things. Mitigating Damage, Maintainging Enmity, and MP management. Of all their abilities, only 3 involve parry, how is that anywhere close ot being entirely based of parry?

In order to reach your DPS ceiling as a DRK you have to be able to parry. In order to be able to reset your stun you need to parry. In order to even do something similar to storms path you have to parry. DRK is already a parry tank.

Most of that is bad design from the get-go. There's really no content that requires the stun to be reset, and most situations that might call for multiple stuns in quick succession are ones where your chances of procc'ing a parry let alone one that resets the cooldown cannot be relied upon. And tying their mitigator to a parry proc makes them lose utility if they aren't the primary tank. These aren't good arguments for your case to be honest.

As far as the weight behind the attacks and the stance. I did say in my opinion it seems like they just used the assets. It looks very similar to how I'd imagine a Samurai-tank would attack, and I just don't see them making another two handed sword user a tank.

You're welcome to have your opinions but there's very little about DRK attack animations that could work for a Samurai. Still, there will naturally be some overlap, just like if a tank uses some kind of 1H weapon, whether it's like Red Mage with a rapier, or some 1H blunt weapon there will be the same amount of (if not more so) of overlap between animations. You can do a lot more with 2 handed weapons than you can with 1 handed weapons in terms of visual style and attacking animations.

Going off of that if they did make Sam a tank it definitely would not be a parry tank. DRK is already the parry tank. It would not be a magical tank as DRK already holds that as well. DRK also has the "counter attack" style down with low blows/ reprisal.

"Definitely" huh? I wasn't aware you were a developer for SE and thus could speak in such absolutes regarding what they can and cannot do. For one, it doesn't need to be a parry themed tank, and two, it absolutely can and could be one anyways. DRK having a single magical based defensive cooldown does not rule out other future jobs also having magical based defensive cooldowns. That's akin to saying they can't add DRK because PLD already has Rampart etc. Yet here we are with DRK who has defensive cooldowns that are almost identical to PLD's. So you cannot in any way, shape, or form, say that SE can't add another tanking job with similar abilities to an existing tank. Your arguments so far are nonsense.

The chances of it being a DPS are much higher than it being a tank. That's not to say the chance is zero but it's just not a very high chance. Due to these reasons.

It's chances of being a tank are still very high as it's one of few iconic FF jobs that is highly requested that can fit the mold of what a tank is in FFXIV. Your following reasons are bunk and here's why:

There are no sword DPS. - They could use anything as a sword DPS but Sam seems to be very wanted in both our community and the JP community as a sword DPS.

Ah there it is, the usual go-to argument. There is no magical rule that claims there has to ever be a sword based DPS. It's not some vital crutch that must be in an MMO. If they don't want there to be sword DPS then they don't have to make them. There's zero claims by any of the developers that they feel the game is lacking because it has no sword using DPS job. One could also argue that swords are universally seen as "Heroic", and that the tanking role best fits the image of a hero and so the tanks having swords makes the most sense.

There is already a 2h sword Tank user - DRK has pretty much everything that SAM as a tank would have had when thinking inside the box involving parry/counter/partial magic damage.

This, like your previous argument, holds no weight. Once again there's no magical rule that says there cannot be any kind of overlap in weapons used. Plenty of MMO's have everyone using the same weapons. On top of that, Katana is always classed as it's own weapon type in Final Fantasy games. It would be wielded entirely different than DRK's wield.

Square has had issues balancing 3 tank jobs - They've already had a ton of issues balancing three tanks. I feel they'd rather introduce a blunt tank than introduce another slashing tank which would make it even harder to balance between the current tanking jobs. The amount of revamping needed would be very high.

You start by saying they have a hard time balancing the tank jobs (debatable), yet then say they should add a blunt tank that would throw off the synergy the existing tanks have with each other? Another tank using slashing damage is a positive when it comes to balancing, not a negative. Tanks sharing a common damage type means they are more easily interchangeable in content. Throwing in a blunt damage tank is what would throw a small wrench in the system.

The backlash from making DRK a tank was high. I highly doubt they'd want to experience that again.

Evidence? There will always be a vocal minority complaining about everything in this game. To this day though, threads pop up everywhere of people giving tanking a try just because Dark Knight enticed them to try it, and this trend should be strived for in future tanks. There will be a backlash no matter what tanking job is chosen. People will complain if the new tank is Red Mage, Blue Mage, Dancer, etc. because it will be a role that isn't their preferred one.

Diadem had a more negative impact backlash-wise than DRK tank ever did. Heck, the moogle quests in Churning Mists had an even bigger negative impact than that, to the point Yoshida has apologized multiple times. You don't see him ever apologizing about Dark Knight, do you?

This isn't to say it can't be a tank I just highly doubt it. Especially if they're going by what the community wants.

Really? What the community wants? Considering every time a Samurai thread pops up it's filled with contention about if it should be a tank or dps. That means the community is definitely divided on the issue. Naturally there is also more DPS players than tank players so of course it will appear as more people wanting it to be a DPS. One could say the community wanted DRK as a DPS and yet it's now a tank, so not always what the community appears to want is what it'll get. The community wants Samurai, but ultimately SE will decide it's role.

[ADVSS]

2-handed katana, DRK got that yo-hai nodachi on lockdown, and the law weapon

[HorrorStory]

Bomb-throwing time mage, most likely. A concept that's never been done.