How SS is calculated and works

[Judge_Xero]

I'm not sure if anything has changed since you did your testing but taking averages from 60+ skill usages with varying amounts of SS is showing per point gains.

The only anomaly being Spells where the Cast is the same as Recast, there seems to be some sort of extra delay.

Bard: @ +462 SS (7%)(93)
Heavy Shot (2.32 in game)
Averaged 2.323

Calculated - 2.325

Bard: @ + 435 SS (6.59%)(93.401)
Heavy Shot (2.33 in game)
Averaged 2.333

Calcualted - 2.335025

Bard: @ + 423 SS (6.409)(93.59)
Heavy Shot (2.34 in game)
Averaged 2.3372

Calcualted - 2.33975

BRD @ + 426 SS (6.4545%)(93.5454)
Heavy Shot (2.34 in game)
Averaged 2.3369

Calcualted 2.338635

Bard: @ +0 SS
Heavy Shot (2.5 in game)
Averaged 2.506

Calculated 2.5

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Also wanted to mention as from above while the issue of a delay where cast/recast times match up is not an issue for most Jobs.
i.e. BLM,BRD,MCH - where Cast times are either longer or shorter than the Recast.

This issue is terrible for Summoner where all of their spells outside of Shadow Flare share a time with the recast. To highlight this I will show some of that data.

SMN - @+452 (6.85%)(93.152)
Ruin (in game 2.33)
Averaged - 2.4439
Calculated - 2.3288

Ruin II (in game 2.33)
Averaged - 2.335
Calcualted - 2.3288

Difference - 0.1089

SMN - @+0 SS
Ruin (in game 2.5)
Averaged - 2.616
Calculated - 2.5

Ruin II (in game 2.5)
Averaged - 2.5046
Calculated - 2.5

Difference - 0.01114

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SMN Comparison
Over 600s @ 2.5 GCD - shoud be 240 attacks
Actually 229.3577

4.5% less casts. Probably close to 2% DPS loss

[Krindor]

snip

Most of the tests we did were done in the last 2 months, with the Huton/GL being tested a week ago.
Tbh except for the tooltip, we have not tested how the delay affects casted spells as neither I nor Dervy have access to a 60 spellcaster and all our tests were performed on NIN/DRG/MNK. But do you by any chance have the raw data available? It would be interesting to take a look at is as we haven't been able to test it ourselves. Also what formula did you use to calculate the GCD?

And those SMN tests seems really horryfying, if a 100ms delay is actually a thing, that is longer on the level of how the game works but a really serious bug.

[Judge_Xero]

But do you by any chance have the raw data available? It would be interesting to take a look at is as we haven't been able to test it ourselves. Also what formula did you use to calculate the GCD?

For the Formula I just used 66 = 1% Reduction (I'm fairly adamant that the Tiers are simply used for the Visual Display of Cast/Recast and are a combination of the 776,776,7676 Pattern found on EA and rounding)

BLM

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/pGQPW...42&view=events

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/pGQPW...ne&view=events

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/pGQPW...ne&view=events

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/pGQPW...ne&view=events

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/pGQPW...ne&view=events

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/pGQPW...ne&view=events

BRD

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/ZNK68...97&view=events

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/ZNK68...97&view=events

https://www.fflogs.com/reports/ZNK68...97&view=events

[Krindor]

For the Formula I just used 66 = 1% Reduction (I'm fairly adamant that the Tiers are simply used for the Visual Display of Cast/Recast and are a combination of the 776,776,7676 Pattern found on EA and rounding)

I'll have a look at them tomorrow as I'm just about to head off to bed so no need to rush it

Compared to the formula I'm using, which is the current one Dervy is using our calculated results differ. Also to be noted is that while the 66 = 1% is something that can be used, changing it to fit the tiers of the desired speed is better. An easy way to do it is, as the 66 = 1% is derived from the amount of SS required for one tier for 1 second GCD, therefore for a 2.5s GCD that's 66/2.5 = 26.4. From that we can gather that we get a recurring pattern of 26,27,26,27,26.

[Judge_Xero]

I'll have a look at them tomorrow as I'm just about to head off to bed so no need to rush it

Compared to the formula I'm using, which is the current one Dervy is using our calculated results differ. Also to be noted is that while the 66 = 1% is something that can be used, changing it to fit the tiers of the desired speed is better. An easy way to do it is, as the 66 = 1% is derived from the amount of SS required for one tier for 1 second GCD, therefore for a 2.5s GCD that's 66/2.5 = 26.4. From that we can gather that we get a recurring pattern of 26,27,26,27,26.

Updated the above post.

That's an interesting way to look at finding the tiers for the visual GCD/Casts. One thing to consider though is that it doesn't work for Empyreal Arrow (66/15 = 4.4).

The minimum recurring pattern being 7,7,6 7,7,6 7,6,7,6 tells us that there are a maximum of 10 rounding points per 66 points of SS. So you would still have that same pattern given a 10 second Cast.

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What I propose is that there are only Tiers for showing the visual representation of SS. But the actual effect of SS is valued per point.

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Take for example the 2 second cast time column.

SS value 467 (+113 SS)

This data point is special because you have a decrease in Recast Time but not a decrease in Cast time. It lands on the recurring 7 data point for EA @ 14.74 Recast.

Data Point = 1.96/2.45

Calculated value of that Data Point = 1.712% (113/66) (98.2879)

2s = 1.965758
2.5s = 2.4572

-----------------------------------

The previous Data Point @ 460 (+106SS)
1.96/2.46

Calculated value of that Data Point = 1.606% (106/66)(98.394)

2s = 1.96788
2.5s = 2.45985

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For whatever reason SE seems to have chosen to do their rounding @ the 4th decimal. That is why 1.96788 is rounded to 1.968 but visually in game only shows to the second decimal 1.96. But 2.45985 goes to 2.46.

Same with looking at the very first rounding point @ 361 SS

1 second cast @ +7 SS (calculated 0.106%)(99.893)

In game 0.99s
Calculated 0.99893

Visually in game this gets rounded to 0.99 when really it's 0.999 but you only see to the 2nd decimal place, but also the reason "why" it simply doesn't show it still as a 1s cast.

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So I think there are two things going on here.

Visually in game for how the Cast/Recast/GCD is displayed goes off the 776 pattern at which point it does a rounding check to visually display the effects of the stat.

The actual effects of the stat on skills is given for every point of stat - but is really hard to pinpoint due to:

Attack Speed Swing (i.e. 2.5s GCD could be in the range of 2.45-2.55) so it takes a lot of averages to get accurate results.
Server Latency
System Latency
Perfect Testing - Requires perfect skill queuing for 100's of data points.

[Krindor]

snip

After a significant amount of testing performed by both me and Dervy we've both seen the effect and it's impossible for it to not be tiered. No matter what tests we did, there was basically no difference between the first 25-26 points but as soon as that extra point was added the speed would be dropped by close to 0.01, this is too large of an effect to simply be something of a chancec. I noticed this about half a year ago when doing some tests, but at the time I thought it was just by chance, now that both me and Dervy have done extensive testing it shows that it's definitely a thing. Also as mentioned by CookieMonsta this is also something that is understandable due to its effect on the servers. Even if it was dropped from 0.01 to 0.001 it wouldn't be able to account for every single point of stats,

[jack891]

So how does the +1ss that pushes you into the next tier compare to other secondaries? Are you guys saying that melding +1ss could be worth more than a +12 det or crit? Or am i misunderstanding lol

[Krindor]

So how does the +1ss that pushes you into the next tier compare to other secondaries? Are you guys saying that melding +1ss could be worth more than a +12 det or crit? Or am i misunderstanding lol

Yes, depending on class it has a different level of increase but even for NIN that 1 point is close to 2.5 str in value.

[SunnyHirose]

If I remember correctly there was a post several months back about a player who found that locking the game at 30fps produced very consistent results for trying to land a specifically difficult jump to get on a certain piece of terrain that was near impossible for them to land when running at higher framerates. I wonder if this carries over to the battle system as well.

Well, it might be a little more complicated than just input in that case, since physics/movement is involved. Typically, physics is simulated at a separate (lower) frequency from the graphics, but that's not to say it can't be re-regulated by locking framerates. The tiniest fluctuations in time step can make those simulations behave differently; it's the nature of the beast, and (in real time) can only be reduced or engineered around, not eliminated.

I myself had a very difficult time making the two hardest jumps on the Sightseeing Log because I play on a toaster. One of them required weather to be Rain, so I had to get there way ahead of time and potentially wait hours on RNG*, else GG no re.

* I did this when it was new. People have figured out the weather patterns since then. Also since then, SE has added skywatcher NPCs and relaxed the requirements for similar weather types.