Thread: Difficulty format for Normal and Savage will remain in 4.0

Originally Posted by Welsper59

snip

What I wonder is, how much can you cater to this 'majority' till all end game content is just a complete joke? How much can Savage be toned down till it becomes Story Mode > Story Mode? Even disregarding Story Mode, Yoshi-P is so fixed on getting more wins in Savage that by how he sounds, that he is willing to take it to a level where much higher percentage is clearing it. If the content is difficult, but fair, and a very low percentage has a clear, then I say damn good work. If I was a developer and I made really hard content that was well designed and only the upper skilled players could beat it, I would be proud of my work.

Also, is story so devalued that people believe they shouldn't put effort to obtain it? I remember taking a while at T12, and when I beat it, the story I got from it was so satisfying and was eager to find out what happened and I finally got my info. It felt really good and I felt like I earned it. Can argue that Alexander's story is not top notch, but what if 4.0's raid is? Story can be a powerful motivator if it is good.

Originally Posted by Rita1989

Dont see any harm in having savage available from the start or a couple of weeks before normal

Normal existing has been a good thing but perhaps they could change the gear so it serves as a catch up rather then being the best gear available at the start of the patch.

I'm not sure how this fixes anything. You are still giving players a much easier means to earn story/gear without having to earn it during it's prime.

Originally Posted by Velhart

What I wonder is, how much can you cater to this 'majority' till all end game content is just a complete joke?

Looking at diadem, palace of the dead, and platoons... It already is. I guess we will see how many subs this format can retain in 4.0, my guess is not many. Blizzard already walked down this path and lost 1/2 their subs.... Now Yoshida wants to follow Blizz. GG

The thing i feared the most in 2.X is becoming a reality in 3.X

Originally Posted by CyrusBryant

Format aside, I just wish they would address raid gear becoming worthless with the release of every new raid. It feels pointless putting in the effort to raid, and the BS that can be included with it, when they release crafted gear/NM raid gear 10 ilvl's higher than the previous ilvl raid gear (rendering the gear that we all work so hard for to become useless other than glamour).

I agree.

I just want to use my raid gear in the next raid please. You can keep giving out max level gear for clearing easy content like dungeons and 24 man, but stop making me throw away stuff (that you now expect me to MELD as well) for easy mode/crafted gear on day 1 of the patch.

At least Savage probably won't be so pound-me-in-the-ass hard.

Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

Looking at diadem, palace of the dead, and platoons... It already is. I guess we will see how many subs this format can retain in 4.0, my guess is not many. Blizzard already walked down this path and lost 1/2 their subs.... Now Yoshida wants to follow Blizz. GG

The thing i feared the most in 2.X is becoming a reality in 3.X

I wouldn't go that far. FFXIV is still a quality MMO. I may not agree with some of their end game approaches, and their execution of new ideas is questionable, but I will still play this over other MMO's any day.

Going to be honest I am glad they are keeping the Normal and Savage modes. I for one do not have time to form a static group and dedicate x amount of hours each week to learning the savage fights. I prefer to log on when I can and hop in a DF party, either solo or with FC, and run the normal raid content . Don't get me wrong back in the day I loved hardcore content and would spend hours each week learning fights. Unfortunately, savage content requires dedication and a good team that works well with each other and many players just cant or wont be bothered to make that kind of effort.

So yea I like the current setup to where Mid core content can be ran in DF and with a somewhat descent group it can be completed. Those who prefer static groups for savage mode can still do so if they choose to. Its a win win for everyone. I dont get the negativity over this. I loved running coils back in the day but I could only run them in either DF or in PF. Trying to form a static group for that content when it was relevant was a pain in the butt and god-forbid real life stuff happens (like having to stay late at work because someone called off sick) and was unable to sign in on raid night. All you see are pitchforks and chains being slung at you then kicked from the static group.

So thank you to the entire Dev team for keeping Normal and Savage raid content for 4.0 as well. I am sure the folks who are in college or those who have to work hard providing a roof over head and food on the table for their loved ones thank you as well. Not everyone can dedicate 15+ hours to raiding each week. So having a normal mode for raiding content allows those who really enjoy raids but simply cant dedicate those kinds of hours to learning savage content a chance to at least enjoy the story and get some mid tier gear out of it.

Its a WIN WIN for everyone so what is the problem? Those who have time and enjoy savage content will have it and those who enjoy raids but simply cant do savage for what ever reason will also be able to enjoy the same kind of the fun in normal mode. Why are people so bent out of shape over 2 modes of the same raiding content? Do you feel you dont have as much to gloat about? Tough... bragging is for the simple minded folks who apparently needs a lot of attention to feel important o.O.... Are you one of those folks that need to have a statue of your character placed in front of your FC house for clearing savage content? Or are you one of those players that simply enjoy savage content just for fun?

Anyways looking forward to 4.0.

Originally Posted by Velhart

What I wonder is, how much can you cater to this 'majority' till all end game content is just a complete joke? How much can Savage be toned down till it becomes Story Mode > Story Mode? Even disregarding Story Mode, Yoshi-P is so fixed on getting more wins in Savage that by how he sounds, that he is willing to take it to a level where much higher percentage is clearing it. If the content is difficult, but fair, and a very low percentage has a clear, then I say damn good work. If I was a developer and I made really hard content that was well designed and only the upper skilled players could beat it, I would be proud of my work.

Also, is story so devalued that people believe they shouldn't put effort to obtain it? I remember taking a while at T12, and when I beat it, the story I got from it was so satisfying and was eager to find out what happened and I finally got my info. It felt really good and I felt like I earned it. Can argue that Alexander's story is not top notch, but what if 4.0's raid is? Story can be a powerful motivator if it is good.

While I'm somewhat neutral on the matter (since I can understand the positives on both ends having over a decade of MMORPG experience), I do respect the feeling and enjoyment you'd get from striving to overcome a difficult challenge and get your reward, in this case being story. I just relate it primarily to my old XI experience, more than WoWs with prolific raids involving Illidan and the Lich King, as XI was difficult as hell for almost everyone, regardless of raid status, to do lol.

The relief and enjoyment from experiencing the story was very much a reward. Personally, there has barely been any storyline segment in this game that could hold a candle to the storytelling done in XI. XIV just feels cheesy in so many ways. Parts of it are great and it is fun, but it feels like we're trying to watch a children's version of Saving Private Ryan that is all about the power of friendship... and smiling head nods. I'd be sorely disappointed struggling to get the majority of story segments here back then lol. At least where it is now with MSQ, it's a little more grown up.

So in essence, yeah the story is kinda devalued, but in multiple different ways. Final Fantasy is a game you primarily engage for story. They know that people can't handle Savage mode, especially if it were on-par with the hell that was Gordias for most players. I sincerely doubt people would be happy if Coils story were locked behind its Savage mode. This is an era where you don't/can't really go against appeasing the majority in an MMORPG... or really a game in general.

If your goal IS to gate people from large chunks of meaningful story, then that's that. Clearly the devs don't want that and just want everyone to enjoy it. They don't care about it being exclusive because they want more people to enjoy the things they put time in to create. Different devs have different goals. Some are more of the storytelling and sharing crowd, somewhat like the devs in XIV, others are more of earning your keep to enjoy what you came for.

Had XIV started in that latter crowd for greater difficulty and progression, things would be very different. It didn't however, and thus the majority who are just here to experience the game in general are who they are catering more to. Those who are here for that old school gated mass reward system are NOT the primary target audience, at least for now. They'll try to do what they can without endangering their vision, allowing things like story to be experienced by everyone with mostly ease of challenge. They're not objectively wrong to do things the way they are, nor are they objectively wrong to prioritize the majority. They may lose hardcore raiding players from it, but that's just how this game was always designed. Even during the beta days, Yoshi-P never really made endgame raiding the pinnacle of why you should play FFXIV. Even for anyone having joined from 2.0, and only now realizing the raid philosophy and being unhappy with it, that fault is not really on the devs.

Whether or not that should be changed is obviously up for debate, but the question becomes how and why? Closing off significant parts of the game from others is where they will apparently not cross the line for, so the folks who want that are blowing steam up their ass for a stupid reason unfit for this game. Maybe they'll change that at some point, but most likely not while the majority enjoy Yoshi-P's direction. You need someone like Tanaka back if you want that really old school raid mentality.