Thread: Difficulty format for Normal and Savage will remain in 4.0

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Fair enough, though that segues into another issue. Say 4.0 did launch with Savage dropping by far BiS gear. What purpose would raiders have to stay subbed once they have all they want? All dungeons, 24-man raids and etc won't give them anything meaningful. Tomestones definitely has its flaws, but it does keep people queuing into the aforementioned content.

Trying to relate gear from XIV to XI is just not a good way to go.

Gearswap is not in this game. Gearswapping made gear situationally relevant.

Ninurta's Sash was the best haste belt for mages. It was good for spells where the potency was fixed but recasting time was important.

Aureole was the best ranged weapon for Magic Accuracy. A spell like Stun or Paralyze, where it does no damage and the mob gains immunity over time is a good use of that item. Casting something like Water V or Holy II where Magic Attack Bonus on a low Magic Evasion monster were the critical stat to boost.

It was not uncommon to carry numerous pieces of gear for the same slot for just one job.

While managing all of the could be a chore. Adding that to having a lot of different stars did make many pieces of content relevant for longer periods of time.

Hopefully that sheds some light on it.

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

I have to ask. People clamoring over lackluster rewards for beating Savage.

Sure you can do it just for the challange part of it and then once it completed, it better offer a decent reward to justify repeating that content over and over if not which i believe it currently stands. I'm not going to waste 7 other peoples time on it for crappy rewards if I don't plan on repeating it for others.

Single player ff games once you beat its beaten your done and usually not repeatable while end credits running so how are you going to use a good piece of gear if drop if its game over with most of those games not having new game+?

Originally Posted by odintius

Sure you can do it just for the challange part of it and then once it completed, it better offer a decent reward to justify repeating that content over and over if not which i believe it currently stands. I'm not going to waste 7 other peoples time on it for crappy rewards if I don't plan on repeating it for others.

Single player ff games once you beat its beaten your done and usually not repeatable while end credits running so how are you going to use a good piece of gear if drop if it game over with most of those game not having new game+?

New game+?
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextr...hampion+System

Global that is hard to balance, with endless levels throughout the entire world. But what about zone/dungeon/raid specific powerups.

Get a gear in raids, you level up in that raid line or the next raid in progression. It applies to raids and raids only.

Originally Posted by Sandpark

New game+?
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextr...hampion+System

Global that is hard to balance, with endless levels throughout the entire world. But what about zone/dungeon/raid specific powerups.

Get a gear in raids, you level up in that raid line or the next raid in progression. It applies to raids and raids only.

That my alternate game I play when I'm done with weeping city today that were I'll be most likely their end game is allot more to offer in that respect.

<casual>:variety
<everything between>tuned badly between the extremes
<Hardcore>:substance

Everything between is either too grindy for casual or too light for hardcore.

If I had my pick, I would have public content open world and instanced for casual-midcore with zerg circumcised.
Let static raiders have a savage mode only with absurd difficulties and BiS.

At least with the content separated this mish mash of the players and constant questioning of rewards would vanish. And specific content can be tuned towards the players it targets.

Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

Coil's story reward was a one time thing though. it's a pretty weak point when ppl argue that's what made coil better than alex.
While i would handle drops differently I do actually like the 2 difficulties.
Savage is just frustrating in one way or the other and not really enjoyable for a lot of ppl. having a challenge is a good thing but not if you know that one of your static members will fail again and holds back the whole group's progression (for weeks or even months)..
Let's see how the next (last) tier of alex savage will be. if it's really more in line with final coil, raiding might be able to recover eventually (though hardcore raiders will probably feel less special).


But what I never got is how ppl complain about the gear progression. the way i understood it is in WoW you get raid drops basically not for this tier but actually for next one. If you are an every week raider you'll will start a new raid cycle with all the gear you need to clear it and everything you get till the next one is introduced is more or less for "bragging rights".
In XIV though drops are there to progress in the current tier. in neither case gear is less valuable. it's usefulness has just different peak times and will be replaced eventually.

Though i wouldn't mind if savage gear would be 5-10 ilevels higher then upgraded tomestone gear (or get rid of upgrades).

Absolutely true. 100%.

That was always my big gripe with gear... That's why raid gear NEEDS to be good, it's for the next tier...

HOWEVER, in this game, the incentive to farm BiS for the next raid tier is nonexistent.

Just look at Midas savage, it gives 240 gear with a 245 weapon. Come 3.4, ilvl 250 crafted weapons and crafted gear will be much better to start the next raid with. I am also sure that the new savage raid will be balanced around players having crafted gear, not the old midas stuff.

Literally the only reason to do midas savage is for glamour (one you can get out of normal) and bragging rights. So, really, just bragging rights.

Originally Posted by Welsper59

Mmm that's just as bad, honestly. You're telling people to wait possibly years then. That's like someone telling you to wait years until you get the type of motivation to raid that you want lol. I'm certain that will go over well with you, right?

You know what I did when I could not raid ICC25 HC? I just accepted the fact, moved on, and did the raid later when I had the time to commit to it. I get full clears, I have the motivation, I just understand my IRL limits. If there was an IRL reason I could not do savage, I would not ask savage to be nerfed, I would move on. Much like I am moving on from this dumpster fire of a game.

The middle ground of staggered release of difficulty is probably the best approach from the story reward perspective, but in the order of Savage > Normal. 3-6 months down the line might be a good time... most likely the former, rather than latter. However, this is STRICTLY speaking in relation to Savage raiders that can actually clear it in that timespan, which for NA/EU, is not a whole lot of the player population. This is not taking into consideration further major changes that is being requested, such as gear ilvl availability being more exclusive (i.e. raid only gear being significantly better and harder to acquire than simple tome gear).

I don't care too much about normal and how it ruins my story as long as I can have better ilvl gear from raids. Right now we don't have anything else other than a minion and bragging rights. No story, No great gear, nothing.

Their concern is likely centered around the majority (this is apparently not you). What are they to do in such a long period of time in the game? That's the majority lifeblood there. At least in the case of how we are today, everyone has a rather consistent flow of content to take part in, even if it is the same old monotonous task that every single act in existence becomes eventually. I'd wager that's at least a part of their defense on the matter.

The entire endgame community only comprises 30% of the player base. Both causal and raiding endgame players are the minority already. I already showed in this thread that raiders comprise a larger portion of the endgame community than most people are willing to admit to. A third of endgame players tried coils when they were relevant.

Retreating to this 'minority/majority' argument is pointless when both end game groups we are talking about are minorities and every piece of content outside of ex trials and raids is designed to be SUPER casual friendly.

Is the MSQ, Normal trials, solo trials, Alex normal, relics, hunts, Palace of the dead, weeping city, treasure maps, DoH, DoL, expert dungeons, aquapolis, the entire gold saucer, housing, the countless holiday events, the mentor system etc etc etc not enough casual oriented content to sustain this "lifeblood" "majority" you are talking about?

In order to please this "lifeblood majority" we are talking about, do you really need to devalue the one piece of HC content in the entire game to the point where the only reason to do Midas savage is for bragging rights? The casual "lifeblood" of this game already gets 90% of the content catered to them. How much more do you need?

I don't think normal needs to go away, what needs to happen is normal and savage need to be completely separated. This means that normal should not drop the same looking gear and that you don't need to do Normal for anything related to savage.

Then, the rewards from savage raids need to have an ilvl higher than upgraded tome gear in addition to being better than crafted gear in the following raid patch. If you fear that this will screw over crafters, let crafters make gear augmentations that give raid gear the 10 ilvl bump (ex midas gear is 240 > use crafted augmentation > now the gear is 250).