Difficulty format for Normal and Savage will remain in 4.0

**thegreatonemal** · 09-07-2016 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by Brian_

snip

Yes you only need to memorize for any of these fights. You get the prey in A5s you go to point B you don't get it stand outa the way of point B that's it you either have to do the thing or your off the hook its executed in the same manner regardless of who has it memorization is all it takes to clear A8s you just need all 8 people to memorize it and execute it perfectly or you wipe there's no middle ground which what people have been trying to show you. the amount of reaction as you claim this calls for is look in the upper right hand corner of the screen for you debuff. Did you memorize what your supposed to do with said debuff. No? You wipe the raid or die which leads to a wipe because the team can't recover from the death. You do remember what to do with said debuff? Do the thing and hope the other 7 members of your group did there things they have to do as well or we're back to square one.

**Velhart** · 09-08-2016 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

snip

Isn't video games ultimately about memorizing? Not only that, memorizing means nothing if you don't have the skills and efficiency in your job to pull it off.

**Mugiawara** · 09-08-2016 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Velhart

Isn't video games ultimately about memorizing? Not only that, memorizing means nothing if you don't have the skills and efficiency in your job to pull it off.

Yeah but like a lot of us said, you literally need to memorize a part of a fight and you better have it done perfectly.
Unlike a single player game, you have control, but you don't have control to 7 other real life people so you're just hoping to God they got it.
It ain't got nothing to do with anyone skills unless it's memory skill lol.
We can all be blasting the hell out of the boss, but if SOMEONE misses a "Wipe-all" mechanic, then it's game over.
The same shxt be tiresome after 3 years all I gotta say.

**Welsper59** · 09-08-2016 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Mugiawara

Yeah but like a lot of us said, you literally need to memorize a part of a fight and you better have it done perfectly.
Unlike a single player game, you have control, but you don't have control to 7 other real life people so you're just hoping to God they got it.
It ain't got nothing to do with anyone skills unless it's memory skill lol.
We can all be blasting the hell out of the boss, but if SOMEONE misses a "Wipe-all" mechanic, then it's game over.

That raises the question of what you want to challenge you within the genre. This is a genre where you group with others to do things, so obviously single player endeavors don't fit the bill in those cases. If you don't want there to be a group consequence for a member failing their responsibility, then that's going to raise a flag of it being too easy on the player.

Memory is a difficult topic to really nitpick at. At its core, every single "skill" you acquire is based off of memory, specifically memorizing. Your ability (i.e. skill) to type is based on a collective of memories you use to know where keys are, where your hands are most comfortable being positioned, etc. Your reading skill is based on a collective of memories involving memorizing the alphabet, definitions, grammar, etc. Arguing about using a skill that isn't memory based is... questionable.

Going back to the wipe subject, that's what a group based goal involves. Some leniency is expected, but mess up too much or at a crucial time, then that's game right there. There is no meaningful group activity that is not without consequence for someone messing up. Group activities are about trust and... teamwork. The trust part going at least so far as to expect someone to handle mechanics that we are being given in the game, not so far as to trust them with your kids or anything lol. If they can't handle it, then that's it. MMORPGs breed failure just as much as they do success... if not moreso on failure lol. That's why group oriented achievements are celebrated so much, as the failure rate is much higher when additional variables are at play.

**Velhart** · 09-08-2016 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Mugiawara

Yeah but like a lot of us said, you literally need to memorize a part of a fight and you better have it done perfectly.
Unlike a single player game, you have control, but you don't have control to 7 other real life people so you're just hoping to God they got it.
It ain't got nothing to do with anyone skills unless it's memory skill lol.
We can all be blasting the hell out of the boss, but if SOMEONE misses a "Wipe-all" mechanic, then it's game over.
The same shxt be tiresome after 3 years all I gotta say.

From what I hear in here, it sounds like people don't know what they want, only what they don't want.

**Brian_** · 09-08-2016 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

Yes you only need to memorize for any of these fights. You get the prey in A5s you go to point B you don't get it stand outa the way of point B that's it you either have to do the thing or your off the hook its executed in the same manner regardless of who has it memorization is all it takes to clear A8s you just need all 8 people to memorize it and execute it perfectly or you wipe there's no middle ground which what people have been trying to show you. the amount of reaction as you claim this calls for is look in the upper right hand corner of the screen for you debuff. Did you memorize what your supposed to do with said debuff. No? You wipe the raid or die which leads to a wipe because the team can't recover from the death. You do remember what to do with said debuff? Do the thing and hope the other 7 members of your group did there things they have to do as well or we're back to square one.

They don't need to show me anything. I've cleared the content first hand. I can show myself.

And, as I've said, based off reality, they are wrong and so are you. When point B is constantly changing based on other variables, it's no longer simple memorization. It's reacting to a situation and adjusting. If you run to a set point every time during bomberman bombs, you will die something like 92% of the time. Even if it's a set response, you are still reacting / responding to a changing fight.

In A8S, you don't need flawless execution. You can mess up mechanics and recover. Even in Elysium's world first clear, they messed up mechanics and had an arguably inefficient strategy. With 20 more ilevels of gear things only got easier. Things like understanding the variables with attachments and how they align with heights, chakram dodging, and P7's mechanic barf lean much more heavily towards the reactionary side of the spectrum.

**ADVSS** · 09-07-2016 10:09 PM

dont do or dont clear? hasnt stepped in or fill in for friends asking? Never done th imfamous SSS(hillarious high tune for roles like tanks)? I mean goodluck using tank stance in them, they should just have given us personal dps parsers instead of this convoluted system to see if you c"an: stay in CS or have no tank stance up, damage it enough. I mean come on, achievements have nothing to do with whether you entered it or not.

As for my reasons to not commit on how i play this game? I have a FC, linkshells, and friends i know irl that get on the game to play, i dont really have 3 hours to burn ignoring them to wipe incessantly, id much rather help those that arent at the top, you got a big fc of 50+ people and growing and with a static you cant really be inclusive to any of them when working full time,

**Archaell** · 09-07-2016 10:10 PM

I wonder about one thing - does the challenge have to come from the kill itself?

Because it seems that too many players are focused on the kill.

"We want challenge so the fight needs hard enrages or soft ones that make it impossible to finish..." etc.

Why? Challenge should come from doing something difficult. But the difficulty doesn't have to be tight to the clearing or not clearing the content.

For example:

A fight in which you have to kill the boss in 10 minutes or the hard enrage happens.

Now remove the enrage.

Fight gets easier.

Add in an achievement for clearing it in 10 minutes.

The challenge has exactly the same difficulty as before, but it gives players better chance to complete the content. This keeps the challenge intact while allowing more players to do the content and increasing the odds to complete the difficult achievement based challenge.

**Thayos** · 09-08-2016 06:53 AM

Isn't video games ultimately about memorizing?

Some more than others.

Compare XIV to XI, though, and XIV's dependence on memorizing mechanics is obvious. The battles in XIV are really only meant to be tackled a certain way -- within that narrow path, there is some room for variation, but you're pretty much on rails. In some battles, the boss literally follows a script regardless what the party does.

In XI, the fights depended less on a script and more on your balancing of jobs, subjobs and abilities. Different party setups often required completely different approaches. That's just not the case in XIV.

I'm not one of those folks who wants XIV to become XI 2.0, but it is what it is.

**Hakuro89** · 09-08-2016 10:07 AM

I personally don't see what was wrong with the Coil format. I pugged it all the way through T13.
To be honest, I always found the idea of this 'baby raid' as a free trip through the high tier raid's story as pretty dumb, because finishing the story was always part of the accomplishment of completing it for me.
(Though I really don't care about Alexander's story because the story was garbage compared to Coil, this was half the reason why I was so unmotivated to do it).

To me the savage raid should be executed like it was in Second Coil- significantly higher difficulty with titles as rewards rather than gear.
The difficulty of Midas Savage was perfect for what the high tier raid should be, with Gordias Savage (pre-nerf) being the ideal "Savage" tier.

The problem with trying to cater to everybody is that you'll -always- be disappointing somebody.

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