Over-extending myself? (WHM advice needed)

[Ninster]

I've been helping two dps friends out in clearing content by queuing as tank or healer, depending on the duty and queue time. I usually roll healer because I know I'll help with dps if I can.

However, I'm far from the best, and I might even argue that I'm kind of flailing around when it comes to healer roles at times. I went SCH in low level dungeons in part because of how comfortable it is to almost full-time CS, but with Heavensward SCH went from comfortable to awkward for me, so I've been running as WHM.

Through the leveling dungeons there weren't many issues because level sync was so tight that both friends were able to do well with the story gear, but as soon as we hit Research Facility I realized there was going to be an uphill climb for them. Pulls were lasting a lot longer than I'm used to as dps, boss fights even longer.

I've tried to get them to gear up through various options (Centurio Seals and Esoterics), but in the meantime, I feel like I need to push dps to cover for them in level 60 dungeons, even though I'm already with them for kick-protection. I've been over rotations with them, and they seem to have the right idea, so I'm assuming this is a gear issue.

The question at the moment though, is how can I strike a balance between dps and mana conservation for heals, especially with long trash pulls and boss fights? I'm trying to use Shroud and Assize as appropriate, Divine Seal + Regen + Asylum to keep the tank going, but I'm definitely fairly low by the time the pull is over, and most tanks haven't been waiting between pulls. My only grace here is one of my friends is a bard and she's been great about using Ballad, but at the same time she's keeping it up going into the next pull which isn't helping her dps.

This is also, admittedly my first time running any level 60 dungeons as a healer, so I'm having to relearn many mechanics from the healer's point of view. So far we've just run item level synced dungeons for clears (ARF, Fractal and Neverreap). Would this situation change much if we get into the non-synced dungeons like Arboretum and Pharos Sirius Hard? Or is this a "rotation" problem I'm having?

[Kabzy]

The levelling process for healers is very easy, you can get away with many things on pretty much all three of them. After you get into more serious content you begin to learn more about Cleric timings, overhealing, pre-casting, MP management etc etc.

WHM is great for making dungeon runs faster, but if you're using Assize and Shroud appropriately, as you say, then there's not much else you can do. WHM don't have any other MP regen abilities, aside from using potions. Your two DPS are doing lower than desired DPS, so the pulls take longer, you use more abilities and you lose more MP.

As for rotation, assuming there are multiple targets in one pull, you'll want to Holy -> Aero III while they are stunned, and then basically just Holy spam and weave in an Assize when it's up. Single target wise just get DoTs up (not Aero unless you're moving or you can weave it with Fluid Aura without pushing back) and then fill in with Stone IIIs. The rotation is very simple, but in end game content you won't get too far pushing DPS while also healing full time. There's a reason SCHs have the best sustained DPS, they just have better tools to pull it off.

[Keramory]

Although you have the right mentality for dungeon raiding as a WHM...don't worry TOO much about DPS until your gear is better.

Remember despite everything else, your job is to heal. Having enough MP to seamlessly continue between pulls is apart of that process. With extra mana of course DPS when you can.

As your gear levels up (the true leveling in this game now), you'll notice it'll be easier to maintain both. This also means the same somewhat for your tank as well. You'll notice by a quick check on the tank if you can Areo III and Holy like crazy while healing full time.

Another factor is the dungeons and the pull style themselves.

To clarify, you're doing your job far more then 80% of anyone else, including healers, tank and DPS. If shroud itself isn't working, I can safely assume its a gear or tank issue. Yes you can optimize your rotation and squeeze out slightly better results, but so can the bloody DPS and tank so you heal less in the first place :P

[gehrtalert]

If youre helping your dps friends level up, then be aware that it gets a little tougher when you hit 50 and HW content. As a WHM main, I will suggest that you focus on getting them a few decent level 50 gear before you dive into the HW dungeons. It's really cheap to get now and it will make a world of difference. Find a crafting buddy or run some easy crap to get tomes. You can only do so much and if your party is under geared, but you won't be able to do enough most of the time.

If you're playing with friends, trying to get them to level to 60, then they need geared up just like you sound like you are. Take a day/night to get them a few pieces of OP gear for their level and to learn how to use their new skills. You're trying to do all that you can but it sounds like it isn't enough. Stop looking at what you're doing and start looking at them.

Just finished reading the original post... Considering everyone you're running with is still leveling to 60 and you've just gotten there.. Gear up while leveling and learning. You'll get new gear and abilities to make it easier for all of you as you get to the end-game stuff. It's a grind, and it takes forever.

[Nekotee]

If you run as whm in dungeon then you should know that you only need 30% of your mana to keep the team healthy
The 70% left are dps

My best advice is to teach new dps how to be and how to place themself ti make it heal-friendly
Like :
Ranged dps should be as near as possible of melee range because there is no point for them to be away
And it allow you to use cure 3 and asylum to heal with minimum cost

...

Don't be afraid to let your tank health go down to 30% (if he rotate CD it should take a while to reach that point) them use tetra and regen and you can CS again
Also do never hesitate to use and abuse benediction i mean... Free ultimate heal with no mana cost
So perfect

Whm got the most stronger burst so you should be able to cover up for your friend until they got stuff.

BTW if you have some Crafter try crafting some 220 piece it's cheap and easy
And real good
Because only lore stuff is better

[Sida]

If you're already doing as much as you say you do, it's not about you. If dps is an issue on a run, the first fault lies on dps players and it seems your friends are not interested of the very basic, that is, keep gear up to date. I take it they just got to 60 if you've been running never reap and such. Going forward from that you reach dungeon where people had weeks to gear up from leveling gear, you simply can't run them in level 59 stuff.

As for their skill, I suspect one fault might be they have leveled in vacuum. I get it some people like to play in established groups but that also limits their view of how others play very drastically. If you really feel they need you as kick protection you should urge them to run df alone to get the grips. Yeah, they might get kicked, afterwards you ask them what expired and try to explain the reasons.

[Parawill]

If you run as whm in dungeon then you should know that you only need 30% of your mana to keep the team healthy
The 70% left are dps

Please do not give misleading advice when healing is highly dependent on group performance (which includes the healer as well). The amount of MP that can be sparred for Stones, Aeros or Holys is highly dependent on performance (avoidable and unavoidable damage) total group DPS, encounter length (time) and appropriate cooldown usage. To say 70% of a WHM's MP pool is for DPS is very wrong when not keeping in mind of various factors that determine how much theoretical MP should be saved for x, y, and z.

Healing can be dynamic in PUG groups since there are different combinations of classes & also player skill as well. Situation analysis is very important when it comes to healing, which then allows the healer to gauge whether or not to play defensively (healing with very minimal DPS), aggressively (high DPS, minimum healing) or balanced.

Here are several examples and thought process that I personally go through when healing in duty finder. This is really just a small portion of so many factors (avoidable damage, unavoidable damage, enmity management, group resource management, positioning, etc), but it should provide some foundation to kick-

- If DPS is low, encounters will be drawn out longer thus meaning the healer will potentially require to be healed more as more damage is taken due to mobs not dying.

- If DPS is high, encounters will be shorter, thus meaning there will theoretically be less to heal, which means the healer can dump healing down-time GCDs into DPS abilities.

Now here comes the other aspect: appropriate cooldown usage.

- If DPS is low and the tank is not using appropriate cooldowns and cycling them for staggered mitigation rather than stacking (3+ CDs, lol) then not only will the encounter be longer, but significantly more damage is taken. This is amplified by how large pull sizes are.

- If DPS is high and the tank is not using appropriate cooldowns, there is more leeway to DPS; however, this is highly dependent on incoming damage as the healer still needs to offset the amount of damage dealt.

- If DPS is low and the tank is using appropriate cooldowns, this is when foresight (the actual word, not the skill) comes in hand. Gauging how much MP that needs to be spent on healing in the next pull and keeping tabs on your MP Refresh resources is very important. DPSing in this scenario is good; however, due to DPS being low, spamming Holy 8+ times will start eating into both healing MP and MP required for the next pull. If Shroud is up, use it if you ever use 2+ Holys in tandem with any consecutive spell that uses MP. Assize should be primarily used as a DPS ability in pack pulls (and as well as a refresh) since you get more out of it through DPS than healing unless in the rare occasion w here you actually need to heal people.


- If DPS is high and the tank is using appropriate cooldowns, this is generally when you can dump MP into DPSing as mobs will be dying relatively quickly. If there comes to a point in which the WHM is Holying 8+ times with Shroud on CD and Assize on CD, it is important to understand when to stop DPSing (refer to above scenario).

Now as for your DPS friends, keeping up with gear is important but the most important is really the main weapon. The Heavensward MSQ should be kept up to date, thus providing a nice supply of HQ Crafted weapons for leveling-progression to 60. I cannot really speak for their rotations and what they do as that requires a video (and /numbers/) to help figure out what is going on, but aside from gear and rotations, hopefully they are adapting to burning down the same mob or swapping between single and multi-target rotations respective to the pull size.

[Ninster]

Thanks for all the replies. I guess I'm doing the best I can and hopefully as my friends gear up getting them through dungeons won't be such a strain on MP. To clarify, I'm about as geared as I plan on being for keeping healers up to speed, as I use SMN and BRD more. Aside from still using an Awoken weapon (that I hope to upgrade soon), I'm sitting on ilvl 220-230 gear, so there's only so much I can do while under an item level sync.

[Nekotee]

I partly disagree with you parawill because i think do not always have to be the one that adapt to the group
Sometime you have to slap some mind put them to work like you do

In EVERY dungeon you can go as 70% dps and 30% heal especially as whm because you got holy as mass control

If dps is low do not stand here to heal for half an hour go dps and make up for the short dps
> Mana will be an issue but tell the tank to wait a bit

If dps is high then that's great less heal and you can full in dps and make it even shorter

... On the cooldown issue yes that's awful because that's what will change you

If the tank is not using cd appropriatly i will fist ask kindly, then less kindly and if stubbornly not helping i will do the same with healing no CD no heal
(It's my way to do it, i do not recommend it of course)
And I follow you if the tank is shitly not using cooldown it reverse to 70% heal 30% dps if not less

But it's also to Us heal... To speak up and voice our disagreement
I won't work more for a lazy player !

...

In my opinion for aoe smashing
Holy should not be blindly spam
But separate by 2 blizzard II
Because it's no use spamming holy on a stunned mob

...

My main advice if healing is :
If a dps take damage give him a regen not cure 2, except if you know that there is unavoidable damage incoming soon
It's pointless to cure a dps when the tank is hit