Tanking frustration when others pull

[Lisotte]

All I can say is - boy I don't miss leveling dungeons, and at lvl 60 dungeons you just pull a couple packs at a time or till you hit a wall and people are usually good.

There's been times where I've seen a DD pull an additional pack but even though I just let him tank it the healer kept him alive fine and we carried on.

[8bitNinja]

I'm mainly seeing an apples to oranges comparison here. Worrying about DPS keeping timers running really only matters in raid situations here you have to worry about enrage timers, which makes sense for them to pull when they know their tank is expecting it. Most of the complaining seems to be in just basic dungeons where do you don't need to have top end dps to clear bosses. Shaving a minute or two off a leveling/50/60/expert roulette isn't too much of a priority for me, but to each their own. Also on a side note, the only dps I really have an issue with while tanking are the ones who pull everything without realising that having only 1 aoe dps class will make large pulls take much longer.

[Gemina]

I think it is fairly obvious if a pulling/tanking DD knows what he's doing opposed to trying to speed things up and effing up any kind of rhythm in the process. A good DD knows when they can speed things up without messing things up. When they do it right, it eases the strain on the tank and healer, not add to it. If you get a knowledgeable and aware DD, LET THEM DO THEIR THING. They will pull when it's appropriate and not a moment before.

I feel it is NEVER ok to be passive aggressive, and deliberately let another player eat dirt. I grow more and more sick of players running content and making assumptions to the knowledge of their teammates instead of coordinating their efforts. We are also passive aggressive by not saying anything. Leaving an instance w/o giving any comms in a fume, or think, "It's DF, and I don't ever have to group with this player again." are good examples a lot of players do. But 40-50-60 minute runs can be greatly reduced if players communicate with each other.

Letting another player die... this should be a last resort kind of thing. You have already communicated to them how their efforts/intentions are hurting the group and they carry on anyway like a deaf monkey. Even then, it might just be best to initiate a vote kick. Players being more flexible in general really goes a long way with making runs go smooth.

[Griffey]

My policy when tanking is if,you pull the mob, you tank it. If it happens first explain to only target the mob, especially in low levels before you get stances. Use your words!if they continue messing around then you kick them. There is such thing as a good DPS and it's a team game, just because you play dps doesn't mean you don't have any responsibility.

It's the only way people will learn. I know it's generally frowned upon to yell at players it if you offer them advice and they don't listen what are you supposed to do? Remember that as a tank, they need you more than you need them. Tank queues are practically instant, so just remind them that it's either play as a team or enjoy the queue again.

I am of course referring to casual content like dungeon runs. Raiding is another matter entirely.

[MirielleLavandre]

Thanks again for all the replies - and yes, in my OP I was originally talking about when I got to synched down dungeons for leveling roulette and don't have my full set of enmity skills yet. I am usually hesitant to kick people since I know it was a long wait for dps (from leveling BRD), so usually I'll say something. If they don't listen and respond even after this, even though it is easy to get back hate or get enmity on a group of trash a dps pulls, it still isn't something that needs to be done in things like leveling roulette. I suppose people will think that in those kinds of dungeons (16-33) you don't even need a tank, which is true, but still. I see the point for keeping buffs on for higher level content and adapt my pulls to the party composition and skill, it was just for those early dungeons and also for newer tanks that I have concern.

[rikuzero]

Sometimes when I'm a dps in a lower lvl dungeon, I have to deal with a tank getting fussy that I'm switching targets to distribute enmity when 1 is about to make me their target (they get mad and think I'm an idiot for not focus-firing on the tank's target), but it seems most tanks I play with value simplicity over optimization. Main example is DoTs on large mobs and reinforcements, and so help me if I decide to throw DoTs on mobs currently being pulled because I thought the tank would actually stop soon to get more hate.

Though sometimes in the first few dungeons I tactfully rip hate, but only when I'm the healer, because 99% of the time the healer won't understand dafuq I'm doing. The reasoning is to distribute some damage (I do 1 mob) so I can make more use of the out-of-battle regen and thus replace a heal with damage. The regen ends up covering around 1/3 hp on average between pulls. Bad practice for later gameplay, but optimal play for the situation. Good or bad?

[Kohta]

I haven't really had issues with hate since roughly after level 50 in general, but in terms of marking, the amount of skills on the bar fill it up to the point that 1,2,3,4 doesn't fit on the crossbar, I have tried playing this game with a mouse and keyboard and wanted to, but it doesn't sit right with me, I am 5% the tank I am with a controller and my layout allows me to react to any situation that is put on me in a fraction of the time, having to flip between more than 2 crossbars is a recipe for disaster when I need to get back to a stun, defense CD or threat and if I have to cycle through its a waste of time and the mechanics will have likely hit me, furthermore, if I have to duplicate these important skills to the third bar, it defeats the purpose.

As a Summoner and White Mage as well, I typically don't heal the tank or DPS a target unless I have seen overwhelm, flash and unleash first.

The real thing that needs to be talked about is not marking this or that, unless it's for a mechanic strategy, what we need to realize is a DPS or even a WHM can take hate from a tank IF THEY TRY, just like in FFXI, Black Mage was always one or two buttons from being a tank, it came down to a choice of weather you wanted to take it or not, eventually, tanks became obsolete since the DPS had it most of the time easier anyway, save for certain content that required it.

The whole "I got to do 99999999 DPS and post it on yewtewb" is honestly sickening, this game has turned into a gear chasing content repetitive elitest thumper where it's difficult to have fun in any role unless you're doing something to bend the design or work against the grain, only to come on the forum and ask it to be reworked, be told to git gud in the nicest way possible, or change to a job with far less responsibility.

[Blackheart]

i give 2 warnings, on the 3rd pull, dps dies.

If the dps thinks i'm pulling too slow, then they need to speak up, let there voices be heard, just because THEY might be ready doesn't account for the rest of the group. If its unanimous, i pull faster/bigger, and thus the problem will be solved.

[Teleniel]

Many of us have been on both sides of this argument.

As a Tank I try to balance my pulls based on DPS/Healing on the first pulls. That being said it's my job to TANK. Even if they pulled extra, as long as it isn't going to be the death of me, I will try to grab agro on everything while not losing what I already have. The exception being when something they've targeted would be the death of me/healer/party where I will let it take the DPS down before I try to pick it up and clear out some of the already present danger.

As a DPS/Healer when I tag something extra, I will bring it to the tank so they can hit it with their usual AoE rotation. Especially as a DPS I would rather it come after me than the healer in terms of pathing enemies that weren't yet picked up. I find it INCREDIBLY frustrating when a tank would rather stand and watch me die, than hit their AOE hate when I'm standing with the enemies right next to them because only they can pull.

[Sigmar_Heldenhammer]

In every mmo I tanked I did it like so:
If dps runs ahead of me to pull, they tank.
If an accidental pull happens, I pick it up.
If dps or healer pull agro from a group of mobs, I pick it back up and apologize after the fight for my mistake.