Blue Mage Confirmed?

[Shurrikhan]

So you guys are ok with a butchered version of BLU so long as it makes it in?

We learn abilities three ways in this game: Innately after a certain level is reached; partaking in a class quest that upon completion, grants ONE additional ability; and through cross class assuming the ability has been learned from the respective class. So with BLU, you're either willing to accept this kind of progression for the class, or you are asking that this system change to fit BLU in to accommodate the lore surrounding the job.

Make no mistake, adding BLU to this game under the current system will be a totally different class with a 'blue mage' tag. Much like the afore mentioned SMN.

First, the "this x1000" comment you quoted was in reply to a "they can easily" (i.e. 'are just as likely') "do this to" (this being "butcher") "BLU." Hardly seems like a "hey, as long as it's in there, I'm happy. *Wink*"

We learn abilities in three ways, thus far. Such systems can change or be added to in ways no consistent with that pattern at any time. There is no "the elbst was blue, therefore it must always be blue," in game design. Whatever reasons you might have for standardizing difficulty or complexity of skill acquisition go irrelevant with BLU being an expansion class/job. Unless that differentiates from the norm as well, you will need the minimum level to enter the expansion's content just to unlock the job. Even if you had to run a dungeon or fight a world boss for almost every ability at that point, it still wouldn't significantly affect balance, because there are always other jobs, which you would have already had to have leveled most of the way just to play this one. The job itself can be a sort of extravagance, if so desired. As long as a raider-to-be can hit level cap and have all his necessary skills before hardcore progression starts, there's really nothing to worry about. Beyond that, all systemic patterns of how you get there, precedent or upcoming, are irrelevant.

[Gemina]

First, the "this x1000" comment you quoted was in reply to a "they can easily" (i.e. 'are just as likely') "do this to" (this being "butcher") "BLU." Hardly seems like a "hey, as long as it's in there, I'm happy. *Wink*"

I'm aware of what I was quoting. I quoted the x1000 since he was agreeing with the other poster. However you want to look at it, it is in response to both of them. Not quite sure why this matters though?

We learn abilities in three ways, thus far. Such systems can change or be added to in ways no consistent with that pattern at any time. There is no "the elbst was blue, therefore it must always be blue," in game design. Whatever reasons you might have for standardizing difficulty or complexity of skill acquisition go irrelevant with BLU being an expansion class/job. Unless that differentiates from the norm as well, you will need the minimum level to enter the expansion's content just to unlock the job. Even if you had to run a dungeon or fight a world boss for almost every ability at that point, it still wouldn't significantly affect balance, because there are always other jobs, which you would have already had to have leveled most of the way just to play this one. The job itself can be a sort of extravagance, if so desired. As long as a raider-to-be can hit level cap and have all his necessary skills before hardcore progression starts, there's really nothing to worry about. Beyond that, all systemic patterns of how you get there, precedent or upcoming, are irrelevant.

It's not a matter of they can change. It is a matter that they have to change in order to accommodate the new class. From a player perspective, not everyone is comfortable with change. Some people like things exactly the way they are. From a dev perspective, this change brings challenges that they may, or may not be able to overcome. This is without mention of trying to keep the majority of the player base happy, which only adds to the difficulty.

I don't have reasons for standardizing skill acquisition. It's the status quo. I'm not the one who standardized it. So I don't even know what you're talking about. BLU being an expansion job WOULD differentiate from the norm if skill acquisition is altered in any way. Under the current system, the ONLY window BLU has to acquire monster absorbed skills is with class quests, and they would be solo instances just like everyone else's. Under the current system, BLU can't have any more abilities/passive traits than any other class, so you can already throw an extensive list of mob learned abilities out the window. You can't customize these attacks, because no such system currently exists. Can one be implemented? I can't answer that, but I would imagine it would be difficult.

As I've responded, I've continuously thought of ways to implement BLU, so I don't want anyone to think that there is a bias here. I've enjoyed playing BLU in other non-mmo FF games. Now, there might be something they can do similar to ACN's aetherflow passive trait. They might be able to give BLU (or it's starting class) a passive trait that allows the acquisition of certain mob abilities at certain levels. So instead of automatically getting this ability, you only automatically receive the requisite to acquire the ability. Successfully slaying the mob before this will grant you nothing. Afterwards, you must survive the skill and also slay the beast and the skill is yours. Again though, you won't have a choice of this skill, it is going to be predetermined based on the role this class plays. They can make it a branch class, with the player determining the route of DPS, Tank, or Healer when it is time to go BLU, and your mob skillset will be based off of this decision.

However, don't think that just because you say that the systemic patterns of skill acquisition are irrelevant makes it so. Unless of course you are willing to show me the programming code that gets around said systemic pattern.

[Neophyte]

Make no mistake, adding BLU to this game under the current system will be a totally different class with a 'blue mage' tag. Much like the afore mentioned SMN.

Or like the

• BLM, just look at the "elemental wheel"
• DRK.. use HP to deal more damage or AoE damage?
• DRG... weren't JUMPs intended to DODGE attacks.. while in FF14 they are "used" to stay IN attacks?

^^




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@Topic in general:

What I ask myself is: why is it ok, to change standard classes like Fighter/Berseker (Warrior), Ninja,Monk so that they have a dozillion skills, while they used to just have 1 attack and a few techs?

In Final Fantasy 6 Samurai had ONE ABILITY, Bushido which could be executed with 1-8 charges... a Ninja had ONE ABILITY, Throw (which can't work in this game at all... lol, "Sry guys, I have to farm some high lvl weapons for raid tonight so I deal much damage.").

So please... can this "this class can't fit into this game" please stop? So far they altered 12 of 12 Jobs of FF4/FF6/FF9/FF11/FFxx to make them fit FFXIV. Some more, some less.


And lore-reasons?! Lore is no problem, it's the gameplay of BLU which has to be changed. And they changed the gameplay of a lot of classes, so far, in every Final Fantasy game.

So far, all we know is 1) BLU interacts with Monsters to learn attacks 2) old FF titles don't have quests to aquire abilites at all, but FF14 has. Mash 1&2 and you have a FF14 BLU.

[LunaFaye]

Well here would be one option, instead of having BLU learn its spells from the job quest, you could always add books to the palace of the dead. Now I am not going to argue about if palace of the dead is great or bad, but with the new floors being added and SE always loves to keep their "old" content relevant, there would be no problem of adding scrolls/books/whatever item to the lower floors. BLU would have to run these floors solo and can acquire it's skills that way. Don't make it a 100% drop chance, could do it just like the old relic line, as you needed to run a couple of times specific dungeons to get the drops or lights later on. That way people could enjoy the class the way it was intended. Pretty sure the lore-holics could find a way to create a story around it, I mean it wouldn't be the first time SE butchered not just their classes but also their own lore just to put out content people requested or they wanted to add for no reason.

[Derio]

This is so funny because the picture is as clear as day what it is.

[Jonnycbad]

Lore wise it could work. I doubt BLU could be a melee/caster because we don't really have any jobs that have both spells and weapon skills, it's one or the other (white mage has no staff/club skills, only spells) for example. So if BLU was a DPS, they would be a caster. Then it's a matter of casting the same spells, maybe a debuff spell here and there, and basically be another BLM, but with slightly different gimmick/mechanic -- probably something like MNK's 'forms' but Cloudkin Form, Vilekin Form etc, with each form allowing spells from that species to combo or have additional effect or w/e. It could work lore-wise but it'll likely not be as cool as BLU in FFXI which was the highlight of BLU badassery.

[synesthetic]

Nitpicking...

we don't really have any jobs that have both spells and weapon skills, it's one or the other (white mage has no staff/club skills, only spells) for example.

For support purposes, there are physical attackers with actions classified as "spells".
PLD has Clemency.
BRD songs are all spells.

Granted, PLD only has one spell (two if you count Stoneskin, three if you count how Flash costs MP) and BRD songs really just have the spell classification to force cast time (action delay) and make it so that you can't do anything to sing faster. I've never tried stacking spellspeed on a BRD, and I don't intend to, so I don't know if that works.
If you were to count -any- MP usage as being spell/magic usage though, then DRK would be a great example of melee and magic.


As for all of the talk in this thread on how they'd implement BLU without a Learning ability, they could pretty easily do it.. We just probably wouldn't like it.
Learning could be classified as a General ability so everyone has access to it, even without unlocking BLU. Pop the skill for a temp buff, making it so that when the monster dies, there's a chance of some kind of monster essence loot--mechanically, this would be the same as Rogue's Mug ability. Each job quest to advance BLU would require you to turn in a set of essences, especially to even unlock the job, guaranteeing a functional set of basic abilities.
If they wanted to go an extra step to make sure you can't have an underskilled BLU in harder content, they could probably make each job quest a level cap unlock as well.

What I wouldn't like is how, given a list of recurring blue magic in the series, some of these abilities would require farming bosses in dungeons and raids. And the devs have been trying hard to keep older content relevant...

[Blackcanary]

As for all of the talk in this thread on how they'd implement BLU without a Learning ability, they could pretty easily do it.. We just probably wouldn't like it.
Learning could be classified as a General ability so everyone has access to it, even without unlocking BLU. Pop the skill for a temp buff, making it so that when the monster dies, there's a chance of some kind of monster essence loot--mechanically, this would be the same as Rogue's Mug ability. Each job quest to advance BLU would require you to turn in a set of essences, especially to even unlock the job, guaranteeing a functional set of basic abilities.
If they wanted to go an extra step to make sure you can't have an underskilled BLU in harder content, they could probably make each job quest a level cap unlock as well.

What I wouldn't like is how, given a list of recurring blue magic in the series, some of these abilities would require farming bosses in dungeons and raids. And the devs have been trying hard to keep older content relevant...

I feel like they should just take Blue Mage from FFXI and work around that as the foundation change what ever they need to, to make it work in FFXIV.

[SpookyGhost]

Granted, PLD only has one spell (two if you count Stoneskin, three if you count how Flash costs MP)

Four if you count Cure.

Five if you count Protect.

Not that any of these matter except Protect and Flash, Protect even being a pretty big stretch.

[Blackcanary]

Yoshida has stated before that eventually all FF Jobs from the past will be added to this game. When it comes to Lore they can change the Lore in any way they want so Blue Mage will fit into the game.

If Yoshida Naoki san really want Blue Mage in this game he will add it into this game plan and simple. Also why make another about blue mage when they is already thread for new Jobs in GD and also loads of threads already made talking about Blue Mage. O well.