Thread: Patch 3.4 - Soul Surrender

Originally Posted by Theodric

The 'battle' against the Warriors of Darkness will likely be some sort of mini-duty rather than it's own Trial. Which also means it probably won't do them much justice and we'll probably see the WoL thrash them. I doubt that they'll be killed off but I do hope we get a 'Beatrix' moment and they absolutely thrash the WoL for a change. At this point it's sorely needed because the WoL's power is becoming tiresome - especially when Hydaelyn is supposed to be barely holding on. Let her 'Blessing' start to waver at key points to show how high the stakes really are and the WoL related stuff should become more engaging.

Exactly when and where the battle will take place... who knows. It looks like it's in a desert region, but beyond that we can only guess - Thanalan, perhaps, but that's not exactly the closest to Ala Mhigo. If it were part of an instanced duty they wouldn't need the ring of fire, so it's probably an instanced fight as part of a quest.

Given this looks like the prologue to 4.0, I fully expect us to get our butts kicked as per shonen standard. If they're supposed to be our rivals, they need to come onto the stage strong and have us work to overcome them throughout 4.0. If we manage to trounce them there and soon, with no negative repercussions on our side, I'm calling shenanigans.

Really, for how rivalries are supposed to work just look at Devil May Cry 3: Dante loses his first battle against Vergil, duels him to a draw in the second, and defeats him in the third. I'm expecting it to play out similarly here, and the "fight" we had with them in Loth ast Gnath doesn't count by virtue of the fact they weren't trying and we never got to cross blades with Darlander's smug prick face.

Would be funny if there actually isn't a fight against Derplander and co...

We're going to Xelphatol why exactly? Actually seems too early to be pushing towards Ala Mhigo, so perhaps somebody stirred up the Ixali, by slaying their Primal perhaps, and we're checking what's up... If so... Thanalan looking region... Dark sky... Flames in the background... Are they perhaps putting down Ifrit?

After Unukalhai gave us that little tale of heroes capturing Primals and eventually turning bad... I can't help but think Derplander and pals are walking talking Heart of Sabiks... Y'shtola mentioned that the aether moved strangely around them, right after they slew Ravana... The tale featuring Alisaie made mention that a group was doing the work of the Scions, so presumably they've been slaying more Primals than we know about... Ixali getting mad because Derplander split Garuda like a log and now they can't summon her perhaps? Speculation aside, it is likely they've taken down Garuda... Whether they absorbed her or anything like that is pure speculation, but either way... They must have slain more than just Ravana to get a reputation for Alisaie to tail them, so them taking out Garuda seems like a good justification for a trip to Xelphatol... By extension, that "trial" screenshot could easily just be them against Ifrit...

Back to the speculation though... Soul Surrender... Is the patch title referring to them having, IDK, surrendered their souls to Elidibus, or is it referring to what they're doing? We watched Ravana surrender to them... Good reason to suspect they've been taking on other Primals as well... Doesn't necessarily mean they're absorbing them I guess, but damn it! Any chance to raise my hype alarms for FC Primal summoning, I'll take! It's finally happening! Derplander is using that power for evil. We'll kick his butt and use that power for good in 4.0! It's happening! I can feel it...

@Cilia:
Interesting analogy. I actually began replaying Devil May Cry very recently. I'm a Vergil fanboy, admittedly, mostly because I find him much more interesting than Dante and his cockiness. Though I do think this game is sorely in need of allowing our rivals/enemies to win from time to time and stick around in the background for quite some time.

I mean...they didn't kill off Rufus after FF7 because he was so memorable/popular. He also never really 'lost' against the protagonists either - he withdrew during the only direct battle featuring him and his silver tongue/allies got him out of trouble during other opportunities. Plus he wasn't without redeeming qualities either and was pragmatic enough to not go 'all the way' with the destruction of the planet...unlike Sephiroth.

Furthermore I've also been playing Witcher 3 recently. That game is awesome in regards to making morality more complex than 'good' and 'evil'. Sometimes doing the right thing leads to the bad thing happening. Which is super refreshing.

But I'm rambling.

Also Kingsglaive releases in a few days. I've been told by a Japanese friend that it is very morally complex and at least one of the antagonists has sympathetic motives so hopefully that'll be the case with FFXV. If that does well too then hopefully it'll be embraced by FFXIV as well.

Originally Posted by Alisa180

Theodric, I think it's far past time that you come to the realization that FFXIV is *never* going to be the 'morally complex' story that you want. Every other post I see you make here in the Lore forum is about how you wish for more 'sympathetic' antagonists. That you wish for something more complex then 'good and evil'.

I think that's quite the exaggeration. I do bring up other topics around these parts but as I have said a great many times this particular sub-forum is at best a niche where the same handful of posters are usually discussing the exact same plot points or theories over and over again because the trickle of new information is usually pretty slow and only comes in 'bursts' when there's a new major patch.

Given that I'm a role-player I'm perhaps more heavily invested in the game's lore and story than most. I'm also well aware that the storytelling is very likely to leave much to be desired - but at the same time it is improving over the time. 3.0 was already a vast improvement over 2.0 and I have little doubt that 4.0 will be even better than 3.0 in that regard.

As for Witcher 3. I don't want FFXIV to be as gritty as that game I'm well aware that it isn't going to be that gritty. At the same time, though, there's absolutely no reason why there can't be more moral complexity where major and minor characters are concerned. There's also no real reason as to why consequences for both protagonists and antagonists cannot be meaningful.

Putting aside the tone/post policing that is frightfully common around these parts, though, don't mistake my posts as me not enjoying the game or elements of the ongoing story. I respond to threads that interest me and attempt to get discussions going - something which so far has proven perfectly uneventful elsewhere other than - ironically - the World of Warcraft lore forum and FFXIV's lore forum. Make of that what you will.

Perhaps we need to secure a safe entry to that area, and the only way is to diplomatically talk to the xelphatol branch ixali- the tribe as a whole has been know to build their own avian devices(hot air balloons? airships?) I could see the ixali chief of chiefs with those guns being all im gonna show you, i got these from killing eorzeans from the machinist guild, ill win no matter what" And apparently this would be the diplomatic end to this is to beat them in a battle of cap=cap? Anythings possible at this point so i wont rule out either

To be fair I wouldnt be surprised if, hes referred to as the lord of snakes, and we get all this garuda lore to go with it

About the Rising event, there is something which could be interesting.
When you choose one of the many paths where Bahamut is defeated, you see Bahamut come again and say "Now I'am Bahamut 2.0 and if i die again you will see me again as Bahamut 3.0 and after as Bahamut 4.0".

The thing is Bahamut 1.0 is defeated by Louisoix, Bahamut 2.0 is defeated by WoL, but what about Bahamut 3.0 and 4.0 ???
Could it be possible de face again Bahamut ?
Or maybe Bahamut 3.0 is our Nidhogg, which mean we will have to deal with another dragon at the next expansion.

For the Ixali from Xelphatol, it could be possible they invoke a new version of Garuda because these Ixali are not the same than those in Cohertas (cf. interview with Koji which said it's possible to have several versions of the same primal depending by their summoner, the region, etc).

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I wouldn't take that so seriously. Since the play is kind of the same concept from the one in Final Fantasy VII, it relies on being silly. The funny scene about Bahamut Omega summoning Bahamut Alpha, Bahamut Beta, etc sounds like a fan fic writer's dream come true and/or possibly poking fun at how there was so many versions of Bahamut in the Final Fantasy VII universe.

or in general, really, this game alone already has 2 versions of Bahamut and his interpretation varies a lot from game to game

It's always funny when people make categorical claims about which direction the lore is going in, including my favourite, "never". We still don't even know that the whole light/dark thing is as clear-cut as we think it is, especially when there is meant to be a cosmic balance of the two, either of which can run into excess. Remaining silent on where you want things to go is a perfect way of ensuring a self-fulfilling prophecy of it going that way.

Originally Posted by Nalien

Would be funny if there actually isn't a fight against Derplander and co...

We're going to Xelphatol why exactly? Actually seems too early to be pushing towards Ala Mhigo, so perhaps somebody stirred up the Ixali, by slaying their Primal perhaps, and we're checking what's up... If so... Thanalan looking region... Dark sky... Flames in the background... Are they perhaps putting down Ifrit?

After Unukalhai gave us that little tale of heroes capturing Primals and eventually turning bad... I can't help but think Derplander and pals are walking talking Heart of Sabiks... Y'shtola mentioned that the aether moved strangely around them, right after they slew Ravana... The tale featuring Alisaie made mention that a group was doing the work of the Scions, so presumably they've been slaying more Primals than we know about... Ixali getting mad because Derplander split Garuda like a log and now they can't summon her perhaps? Speculation aside, it is likely they've taken down Garuda... Whether they absorbed her or anything like that is pure speculation, but either way... They must have slain more than just Ravana to get a reputation for Alisaie to tail them, so them taking out Garuda seems like a good justification for a trip to Xelphatol... By extension, that "trial" screenshot could easily just be them against Ifrit...

Back to the speculation though... Soul Surrender... Is the patch title referring to them having, IDK, surrendered their souls to Elidibus, or is it referring to what they're doing? We watched Ravana surrender to them... Good reason to suspect they've been taking on other Primals as well... Doesn't necessarily mean they're absorbing them I guess, but damn it! Any chance to raise my hype alarms for FC Primal summoning, I'll take! It's finally happening! Derplander is using that power for evil. We'll kick his butt and use that power for good in 4.0! It's happening! I can feel it...

There's also been hints in the story that the main character is becoming excessively powerful, with many primals expressing disbelief at what he/she is. Perhaps the intention isn't to use the power for 'evil'. Who knows. I, for one, would love to see the MC lose their plot armour and really have to struggle, and not just in the way they did after Midgardsormr de-activated the blessing.

Maybe also see some of the "do-good"ing have some disastrous ramifications later down the line. Every action has consequences which are unpredictable and sometimes antithetical to its very purpose.