Patch 3.4 - Soul Surrender

**PArcher** · 09-26-2016 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by RobinMalvin

Then we already know why Ramuh inadvertenly tempers his followers even when he doesn't mean to

He *did* intend to temper them. He didn't want to, but they *demanded* they be tempered, so he complied.

Primals have to actively temper; its not a passive effect (or we wouldn't have seen Ifrit tempering everyone in the blue flames. Or why Garuda had to focus that whirlwind on you explicitly to temper you. Or why the Company of Heroes was able to best Leviathan and Titan, and the Immortal Flames can fight against Ifrit; if it were passive they'd have all been tempered, not just some, and victory would have never come). Yes, it involves Primal Aether, but its very specifically used only to temper.

**Belhi** · 09-26-2016 12:33 PM

Tempering seems to require some active effort on the part of the Primal. More over, its not something a Primal can just continuously do without a break. The Company of Heroes strategy was based around this.

They divided into three waves. The first wave would be the sacrificial one, fighting till they were tempered by the Primal. The second wave would then engage the first one and keep it and the other primal followers occupied while the third wave would flank and engage the primal directly. This is how they successfully beat two primals, with admittedly a very high loss of life.

I suspect tempering requires Aether and so Primals don't do it wastefully. In a lot of cases they don't have to. Their beast tribes worship them without the need for tempering.

Curiously with 3.4, I get a feeling the WoD have figured out some way to turn the Primals on the beast tribes that summoned them. We see Titan killing Kobalds, and in the scene with the WoD we see burned ground and a dead Amal'jaa. It would certainly be potentially an effective way to get the beast tribes to stop summoning their primals. That though seems strange to me. Why would the Ascians seek to stop primal summonings now? Perhaps how that Hydaelyn is so weak, further primal summonings might start undermining their own goals? Weaken the host rather than killing it?

**Morningstar1337** · 09-26-2016 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Belhi

Curiously with 3.4, I get a feeling the WoD have figured out some way to turn the Primals on the beast tribes that summoned them. We see Titan killing Kobalds, and in the scene with the WoD we see burned ground and a dead Amal'jaa. It would certainly be potentially an effective way to get the beast tribes to stop summoning their primals. That though seems strange to me. Why would the Ascians seek to stop primal summonings now? Perhaps how that Hydaelyn is so weak, further primal summonings might start undermining their own goals? Weaken the host rather than killing it?

Consider that Unukalhai (who is implied to have some connection to the ascians...I blame the cowl) wanted us to stop Ravana and Bismarck (EX trials) and the Warring Triad, i think this might be likely

**MilesSaintboroguh** · 09-26-2016 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Belhi

snip

Or it's some sort of convoluted plan by the WOD's Ascian BFF to get them powerful and use that power to stop the WoD maybe?

Screw it. Ascians. Always Ascians.

**Toranja** · 09-26-2016 04:50 PM

Primals are not just a collection of aether. They are people.

They have their own reasoning, personality, memories and essence. None of that is borrowed from a summoning.

**Hinoto-no-Ryuji** · 09-26-2016 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by Toranja

None of that is borrowed from a summoning.

I'm pretty sure a large part of it actually is, though, considering it's been outright said that the temperament and personality and appearance of a Primal is based on the circumstances of its summoning (ie, the intent behind it, the beliefs of the worshippers, etc).

**Cilia** · 09-26-2016 05:35 PM

It is known that primals are, to some extent, colored by the wishes of their summoners. The primals we always fight are, for instance, summoned almost with the exclusive purpose of territorial defense or expansion. The amalj'aa want Ifrit to help defend their territory, the kobolds want the same of Titan, the ixal want Garuda to crush their enemies, the sahagin want both of Leviathan. Ramuh is, again, a unique case because he was summoned for the purpose of reconciliation, and Shiva, only ever summoned as Ysayle's ~~Super Saiyan~~ combat "mode," has no proper agency of her own. Ravana was summoned for the purpose of territorial expansion and is appropriately bloodthirsty, and Bismarck... who knows, all he does is fly around and eat islands... doesn't seem to have much of a personality at all. [King] Thordan has an identical case to Shiva.

(Not sure why the mogglesguard summoned King Moggle, except because they're moogles and wanted to see if they could.)

So, the intention behind the summoning will color the psyche of the primal, but that said there is still a baseline personality for them to draw on. Good King Moggle Mog XII, for instance, has the regal bearing and mannerisms you'd expect out of a king, but is not as benevolent as he'd seem judging on the myth (no matter what they are based on, Primals always come out as a twisted mockery of the summoners' intentions. Given the Ascians are the ones you have to get the ritual from, this is entirely intentional).

It's kind of like how lots of Greek myths paint Zeus with varying levels of morality, but he always has the same backstory (overthrew his father, freed his siblings, and took his place as king of Olympus), personality (a sometimes petty womanizer), and power set (lightning and wind).

**Fenral** · 09-26-2016 08:37 PM

Alexander Prime Card
Triple Triad Card

A rare (★★★) card used in the game Triple Triad.

Well, guess that answers that.

Wind-up Moenbryda
Minion

Destined to die a hero...and live on as a mechanized servitor.

Use item to acquire the wind-up Moenbryda minion.

And that.

**Rocl** · 09-27-2016 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Fenral

Well, guess that answers that.

That's rather disappointing he's only 3-stars. I guess he'll see more use now though :P

**Catapult** · 09-26-2016 10:03 PM

May the Spoilers be with you all.

Thread: Patch 3.4 - Soul Surrender

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