Petition to keep non-instanced dungeons.

[Viritess]

Its just a shame to me that something like a multi level explorative dungeon/zone, however you term it, seems un-able to be realized often due to Gear issues. The RNG of getting such gear to drop and the exclusive rather then inclusive atmosphere it componds.

While I'm very glad you enjoyed a system and found it very much to your liking i've always had a hard time understanding competition for "things", whatever they may be, that requires withholding the ability to attempt obtain that item from all others. Maybe its something like capture the flag, but the flag must be killed too? am i close?

Worlds first i can understand, because its a race with everyones toes on the starting line. But for things such as MMOs and video games in general i always thought the entertainment of all should always be part of the equation.

But much of all of the above tends to center around many of the issues i tried to artfully dodge in my prior 2 posts, Gear.

If drop rates are low and random, claim camping becomes contineous. If the item is marketable, it becomes constant. And i'm of the opinion that open world dungeons can no longer survive in games in that form. But if we are to say that gear is the only reason we, as players, will do anything then we should devise some ideas on how one could avoid the issues that turn many people off instead of completely scrapping any possibility of non-instanced dungeons.

I think it all hinges on finding a standing premise. How many times in an area where comething can be held by some with the exclusion to some others, How long should that be acceptable, if at all?

My opinion has always been more on the side of adventure and exploration with open dungeons, and much much less focus on lets say, progression rewards. Where tuned instances challenge one in combat, and thus offer combat rewards, I don't belive the same type of rewards should be available in an open world structure.

So the next question i would pose would be what other rewards, if any, could or should be presented for areas that challenge you in a different aspect. If a dungeon is more puzzle focused, what would be a reward for that? If a dungeon is more focused on waves of relativly "softer" creatures, what would the reward be there? If a dungeon is full of traps like an Indiana Jones and the temple of doom type ripoff, what would the rewards for that look like?

I don't think every reward for every corner of a game that requires effort of some kind should automaticlly reward a person with progression type items. It may mean some people will never run them. However the same happens with instanced raids, the same happens with crafting.

I'm hardly ever for denying anyone of aspects of a game they enjoy, however i don't belive the rewards for all things possible need to push the envelope every time.

I seem to have said alot, so i'll give folks time to comment before i accidentally change the flow of conversation before everyones had a chance to speak their mind. Thanks for reading!

[Khal_Drogo]

To each their own. Because I remember the /sh bitchfests. The MPKs. The cure bombs to try and steal claims. Trying to cause a Spike Flail. Waiting five+ hours to see no spawn. Seeing mobs pop claimed. Spending weeks/months/years doing the same mind numbing challenges battles with no progress toward any sort of personal goal.

Yeah, there was some thrill in actually getting the claim. But it was countered and dwarfed by the immense overall frustration caused by the rest of the experience.

I understand people enjoyed it. But the Players' Poll spoke volumes about how few players actually want that experience again or ever.

Obviously, there are exceptions to every rule. Argus, the bird dude out of crawlers' nest that dropped striders or w/e boots, and practically ALL the HNMs were VERY poorly designed.

I definitely don't want a repeat of any of that, either; but, as I've said before, it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other...there can, and should, be a balance between the two.

Let's not "burn any more books," shall we ;P

[ThePatriarch]

Obviously, there are exceptions to every rule. Argus, the bird dude out of crawlers' nest that dropped striders or w/e boots, and practically ALL the HNMs were VERY poorly designed.

Please elaborate. Why were the poorly designed?

Long respawn timers, and low drop rate to make sure that not everyone had that piece of gear. Getting claim was exciting, and the thrill of killing before rage timer, etc, imo was awesome.

Albeit, one thing I hated about that certain NM was the timer. No windows, just 3 hours of hoping you didn't lose claim. I loved camping NM's, But I am all for no long windows, just 1 pop chance and no wasted time. or something like that

I am an XI fanatic, and love all things HNM, but I'll take an arrow to the knee before I camp another 5-6 hour NM like DI, or Sandworm. Camping those against other LS's is the biggest waste of time ever.

[ThePatriarch]

Keeping this thread alive

[Sephrick]

Keeping this thread alive

It's inhumane to keep something brain dead on life support. Just let it go naturally like it has several times.

[Rokien]

It's inhumane to keep something brain dead on life support. Just let it go naturally like it has several times.

I would like you to create a non brain dead thread with 200+ likes

Only 4 more

[Sephrick]

I would like you to create a non brain dead thread with 200+ likes

Only 4 more

As I said in the other thread. You pt too much value in someone clicking the like button.

Here's a thread I made a while back making a very clear case that XI never was a hardcore game.

By your standards, those 175 "likes" would suggest that my opinion was that of the majority.

But just because they liked it didn't mean they agreed. Maybe they just appreciated the tone. Or use of good grammar. Or how I presented my ideas.

So don't assume that just because you're nearing 200 "likes" that it means anything, or that any amount is quantifiable to some level of approval.

I can post a picture of a cat captioned "Manqo'te beta" that would probably get a few hundred likes but that doesn't mean people think male felines should beta test XIV.

[Exni]

As I said in the other thread. You pt too much value in someone clicking the like button.

Here's a thread I made a while back making a very clear case that XI never was a hardcore game.

By your standards, those 175 "likes" would suggest that my opinion was that of the majority.

But just because they liked it didn't mean they agreed. Maybe they just appreciated the tone. Or use of good grammar. Or how I presented my ideas.

So don't assume that just because you're nearing 200 "likes" that it means anything, or that any amount is quantifiable to some level of approval.

I can post a picture of a cat captioned "Manqo'te beta" that would probably get a few hundred likes but that doesn't mean people think male felines should beta test XIV.

The likes on your post were simply people who rarely, if ever, played XI.. or simply didn't like it for whatever reason.

The likes on this post are because open-world content > instanced content.

[Gramul]

As I said in the other thread. You pt too much value in someone clicking the like button.

Here's a thread I made a while back making a very clear case that XI never was a hardcore game.

By your standards, those 175 "likes" would suggest that my opinion was that of the majority.

But just because they liked it didn't mean they agreed. Maybe they just appreciated the tone. Or use of good grammar. Or how I presented my ideas.

So don't assume that just because you're nearing 200 "likes" that it means anything, or that any amount is quantifiable to some level of approval.

I can post a picture of a cat captioned "Manqo'te beta" that would probably get a few hundred likes but that doesn't mean people think male felines should beta test XIV.

Sorry, you never reached 200. Any opinion you have is completely invalidated.

[Sephrick]

The likes on your post were simply people who rarely, if ever, played XI.. or simply didn't like it for whatever reason.

The likes on this post are because open-world content > instanced content.

Like I said before, you're delusional. Basically you just said "it only counts if they like my post."

You have no evidence to support how much people did or didn't play XI. So according to you logic the majority of people felt there was nothing truly challenging about XI.

But your 200 likes, whether they support you or not, are paltry in comparison of the 75% of players who a year ago voted for the important stuff to be instanced. So, since they shipped around 600,000 units around that time, you only need about another 449,800 likes for any of this to be relevant.